House of Lords Journal Volume 3: 24 April 1624

DIE Sabbati, videlicet, 24 die Aprilis,

Domini (fn. 1) tam Spirituales quam Temporales, quorum nomina subscribuntur, præsentes fuerunt:

Jurati in causa Domini Thesaurarii:

Witnesses in the Lord Treasurer's Cause.

Their Oath.

To answer the Truth unto such Questions as shall be demanded by the House, or any Committee appointed by the House.

Ld. Stafford's Privilege. Thomas's Arrest.

Upon Report made to the House this Day by the Lord Denny, That the Arrest of Walter Thomas, Town Clerk of Chippingnorton, and Servant to the Lord Stafford, appears to be a Matter of small Moment, and not so great as was conceived; it is Ordered, That the former Order, made the Thirteenth of this April, for the Serjeant at Arms to bring before their Lordships Edward Chadwell, Gentleman, and others, who arrested the said Walter Thomas (which Order was suspended by another Order of the 21st of this Month), shall now be discharged, and the said Edward Chadwell dismissed.

Avoiding Delays in Law Suits.

Hodie 1^a vice lecta est Billa, An Act for avoiding vexatious Delays caused by removing Actions and Suits out of Inferior Courts.

Assurance of Lands to Sir Thomas Cheeke.

Hodie 2^a vice lecta est Billa, An Act for Confirmation of the Assurance of certain Lands sold by Sir Thomas Beamond, Knight and Baronet, Lord Viscount Beamond, of Swords, in the Kingdom of Ireland, and Dame Elizabeth his Wife, unto Sir Thomas Cheeke, Knight. Committed unto the

To meet on Friday Morning next, the 30th of this April, at Eight in the Morning.

Monson's Petition.

The Petition of Sir Thomas Monson, Knight, was read, touching the Extent of the Lands of Sir Roger Dalison, Knight and Baronet, deceased; and committed unto the

To meet when they please.

Petition against Popish Recusants presented to the King.

The Lord Archbishop of Cant. signified to the House, That Yesterday (according to their Lordship's Commandment) the Committee for the Petition concerning Jesuits, Seminary Priests, and Recusants, waited on His Majesty; and that his Grace delivered the said Petition unto His Majesty, having first read the same; which Petition His Majesty accepted, and gave a gracious Answer unto the same.

The Lord President reported the said Answer, and read the same unto their Lordships; and Mr. Attorney read the same also, in hæc verba: videlicet,

"My Lords and Gentlemen,

King's Answer to it.

Although I cannot but commend your Zeal in offering this Petition, yet, on the other Side, I must hold Myself unfortunate, that I should be thought to need a Spur to do that which My Conscience and Duty bind Me unto; what My Religion is, My Books do declare, My Profession and Behaviour do shew, and I hope I shall never live to be thought otherwise; sure I am, I shall never deserve it. And, for My Part, I wish it might be written in Marble, and remain to Posterity, as a Mark upon Me, when I shall swerve from My Religion; for he that doth dissemble with God is not to be trusted of Men. My Lords, for My Part, I protest unto you, My Heart hath bled when I have heard of the Increase of Popery. God is My Judge, it hath been such a great Grief unto Me, that it hath been like Thorns in My Eyes, and Pricks in My Sides; so far have I been, and ever shall be, from turning any other Way. And, My Lords and Gentlemen, ye all shall be My Confessors, that, if I knew any Way better than other to hinder the Growth of Popery, I would take it; for knowing that I do, and being persuaded as I am, I could not be an honest Man and do otherwise: And this I may say further, that, if I be not a Martyr, I am sure I am a Confessor; and in some Sense I may be called a Martyr, as in the Scripture Isaac was persecuted by Ismaell in mocking Words; for never King suffered more by ill Tongues than I have done, and I am sure for no other Cause. And yet I have been far from Persecution; for I have ever thought no Way more increaseth any Religion than Persecution, according to that Saying, That sanguis martyrum is semen ecclesiæ. Now, My Lords and Gentlemen, I will not only grant the Substance of what you crave, but add something more of My own; for the Two Trearies being already annulled, as I have declared them to be, that necessarily follows of itself which you desire. It needs no more but that I declare by Proclamation, which I am ready to do, That the Jesuits and Priests do depart by a Day; but it cannot be as you desire, by one Proclamation to be out of all My Dominions; for a Proclamation here extends but to this Kingdom. This I will do, and more: I will command all My Judges, when they go their Circuits, to take the same Course, for putting all the Laws against Recusants in Execution; that they were wont to do before these Treaties; for the Laws be still in Force, and were never dispensed with by Me, and, God is my Judge, never were intended so to be. But, as I told you in the Beginning of the Parliament, you must give Me Leave to do as a good Hotseman, sometimes to use the Rein, and not always the Spur; so that now there needs only My Declaration. And for the disarming, that is already provided for by Law; and it shall be done as you desire. And more, I will take Order to prevent that shameful Disorder of the resorting of My Subjects in Numbers to the Houses of all Foreign Ambassadors; and of this I will advise with My Council, how it may best be reformed. True it is, Houses of Ambassadors be Privileged Places; and, though they cannot take them out of their Houses, yet the Lord Mayor and Mr. Recorder of London may take them as they come from thence, and make some of them Examples. Another Point I will add, concerning the Education of the Children of Recusants, of which I have had a principal Care, as My Lord of Cant. and the Bishop of Winchester, and other Lords of My Council, and indeed all My Council, can bear Me Witness, with whom I have advised concerning this Matter; for, in good Faith, it is a Shame that their Children should be so bred here, as if they were brought up in Madrid or in Roome. So as I grant you all that you desire and more, only I am sorry that I was not the first Mover; and, if you had not moved these Things to Me, yet I would have done them Myself. Now for the last Part of your Petition, you have therein given Me the best Advice in the World; for it is against the Rule of Wisdom that a King should suffer any of His Subjects to be beholding and depend upon any other Prince than Himself; and what hath any King to do with the Laws and Subjects of another Kingdom? Therefore assure yourselves, that, by the Grace of God, I will be careful that no such Condition be hereafter foisted in upon any other Treaty whatsoever; for it is fit that My Subjects should stand or fall to their own Lord."

Report from the Committee for examining the Charge against the Ld. Treasurer.

The Lord Archbishop of Cant. reported also to the House, That the Committee appointed to examine the Complaint of the Commons against the Lord Treasurer have met, and examined divers Witnesses, who were sworn here in the House; and have made a Collection of Part of the said Charge.

Mr. Attorney read the same, in hæc verba: videlicet,

Part of the Lord Treasurer's Charge.

1. The Farmers of the Petty Farms of Wines and Currants having sustained great Loss in their Farm, by an Impost of Three Pounds upon the Tun of Wines newly set, were long and instant Suitors to the Lord Treasurer for Relief; but, finding none, exhibited their Bill into the Exchequer; and, after a Petition to His Majesty for Reparation of their Loss, and after a gracious Answer from His Majesty, the Lord Treasurer agreed with them upon a Recompence of Nine Thousand Five Hundred Pound, to be defalked by One Thousand Pound per Annum out of their Rent; yet, after this Agreement made, he protracted their Warrant about Six Months; and, in the End, took of them a Bribe of Five Hundred Pounds for their Dispatch, which was set upon the Account of the Petty Farms; but, since the Summons of the Parliament, by his Lordship's Direction, the same was posted to the Account of the Great Farm.

2. The Lord Treasurer being presented with a Tun of Wine by the Farmers of the Petty Customs, and not contented therewith, exacteth Money of them, who were thereupon drawn to give him an Hundred Pounds.

3. The Farmers of the Great Farm having, by their Lease, covenanted to give Security for Payment of their Rent, divided their Farm into Thirty-two Parts, appointing every Partner to give Security of Fifteen Hundred Pounds for every Part. Five of the Partners relinquishing their Parts, the Security sell short Seven Thousand Five Hundred Pounds; whereupon the Four Patentees, resuming those Five Parts to themselves, tendered their own Security, which his Lordship agreed to accept; yet protracted them about Three Quarters of a Year, until they gave him Five Hundred Pounds for his Dispatch; and whereas his Lordship pretends, by his Answer to the House of Commons, that he had this Five Hundred Pounds, and the other Five Hundred Pounds first mentioned, in one intire Sum, for Four Thirty-two Parts of that Great Farm; it appeareth his Lordship had no Parts at all in that Farm.

4. George Herriott, having the Farm of Sugars upon a Rent of Ten Thousand Marks per Annum, the Lord Treasurer procured Herriott to surrender that Lease; and, to effect the same, gives Order for Payment of Fourteen Thousand Eight Hundred and Sixty-five Pounds, due to Herriot for Jewels; all which was paid between the 15th of December 1621, and the 10th of January following. This Lease was no sooner surrendered, but the Lord Treasurer procures a Lease unto Two of his Servants, by Indenture, dated 13 Jan. 1621, for One and Twenty Years, at Two Thousand Pounds Rent per Annum, which Rent his Lordship paid so slowly, that, there having but Four Thousand Pounds thereof grown due since the Lease, Three Thousand Pounds thereof was paid on and since the 31st of December last; and whereas the Merchants importing any Merchandize, and paying the Duties, are freed to export within the Year, without any new Payments; this is observed in all other Farms, but is denied in this, for the Lord Treasurer's Benefit.

5. The City of London having yielded to a Composition for Grocery Ware, which the Out-Ports, and in particular the City of Bristol, refused; upon long Debate and Advisement, in the Time of the Lord Treasurer Salisbury, it was resolved they should not be pressed thereto; nevertheless, the Lord Treasurer hath given Warrant to levy that Composition upon the Merchants of the Out-Ports, against their Wills, or else to stay the Landing of their Goods; which hath been put in Execution accordingly.

6. In December 1618, His Majesty, upon great Deliberation and Advisement, did set forth Instructions very sitting and necessary for the Well-ordering of the Court of Wards. The Lord Treasurer, becoming Master of the Wards, and, for his own private Gains, aiming at an Alteration of those Instructions, first procured a Reference to divers of the Council to consider thereof; yet after waived that Reference, and, by his own Power and Greatness with the Officers of the Court, though much against their Wills, and by Misinformation of His Majesty, though much to the Disadvantage of the King and Subject, in the Year 1622, procures new Instructions, thereby taking the Petitions from the Clerk of the Court, and appropriating them to himself and his Secretary, who takes great Rewards of the Subject for procuring Answers to the same; and, by Colour of those new Instructions, he doubles the Fee of Continuances of Liveries; and having to himself concealed Wardships, he may easily make Wardships concealed by the Course of the new Instructions.

Also he hath made a Stamp, and delivered the same to his Secretary to be used, thereby most unlawfully putting into the Hands of his Secretary the greatest Part of the Power and Trust appertaining to the Office of Master of the Wards; which the Secretary hath used, stamping therewith, in the Absence of the Master, Tenders, Continuances, Warrants to the Great Seal, Grants of Wardships and Leases, Indentures of Liveries, etc. And where, by the Privy Seal of 6° Jac. there was an Allowance settled, for the Ordinary of the Office of Ordnance; which being put out of Order in the Time of Sir Roger Dalison, in Anno 1617, the Lords, upon Reference from His Majesty, set, under their Hands, a Proportion of Supply. And in Anno 1620, the Lord Treasurer himself, with the rest of the Commissioners of the Navy, set down a new Proportion, both for present Supply and future upholding that Office; his Lordship, being Treasurer for the Space of Two Years and a Half, hath observed none of these Proportions or Establishments, whereby the Stores are in Effect wholly unfurnished.

And there being a Contract made with Mr. Evelyn, by himself and other Commissioners, for His Majesty, for serving His Majesty with Gunpowder, being a Bargain of high Consequence to have been kept, his Lordship hath also neglected and broken that Bargain, to the Hazard of the Kingdoms, and Prejudice of the King.

He hath also made unlawful Bargains for the Lands of Sir Roger Dalison, wherein, for compassing those Lands, he had contracted to do his Endeavour to procure Payment of Eight Thousand Pounds of old Arrears, which he performed when he became Treasurer, and to pay for the Land, with making of Baronets and Suits to the King, and in particular with a Suit for compounding with His Majesty's Copyholders of Wakefeild, valued by himself worth Two Thousand Pounds; and having agreed with Sir Thomas Dalison and the Officers of the Ordnance, he, to gain indirectly, and by oppressive Means, an Estate which Sir Roger Dalison had passed to Sir Richard Smyth and Sir John Davy, (fn. 2) setteth on Foot an Outlawry of Sir Roger Dalison's, and thereby dispossesseth Sir Richard Smyth and Sir John Davy, who had been in Possession by a Trial at Law, using the Power of his Place, and Countenance of the King's Service, to wrest them out of a Lease and Estate of a great Value."

Ld. Treasurer's Charge to be sent to him.

And it is Ordered, That the said Part of the Lord Treasurer's Charge shall be sent unto him this Day, by Mr. Serjeant Davis and Mr. Serjeant Finch.

To answer it at the Bar.

And it is further Ordered, That the Lord Treasurer appear here on Thursday next, at Nine of the Clock in the Morning, to answer his Charge at the Bar.

His Witnesses to be sworn before his Appearance.

And also, That, if the Lord Treasurer hath any Witnesses to be examined, he may present their Names to the House, to be sworn and examined here between this and the same Day.

And, Memorandum, That it is Ordered by the House, That the Lords Sub-committees for Privileges, etc. shall see this Entry made in the Journal Book: videlicet,

Whereas, by the ancient Customs of this House, the Parties accused and complained of are to receive their Charge at the Bar; yet at this Time, in regard the Prince and many other Lords are necessarily to attend the King at Windsore, for the solemnizing of St. George's Feast, and cannot return to be here till Thursday next; therefore, for gaining of Time, and also that the Lord Treasurer might have this Time to prepare his Answer; it was Agreed, That his Charge shall be sent unto him in Writing. But this to be no Precedent for the future."

Adjourn.

Dominus Custos Magni Sigilli declaravit præsens Parliamentum continuandum esse usque in horam 2^m hujus diei, in pomeridiano, Dominis sic decernentibus.

Post meridiem,

Domini (fn. 3) tam Spirituales quam Temporales, quorum nomina subscribuntur, præsentes fuerunt:

Maintenance of Hospitals, etc.

THE Lords Committees on the Bill for better Maintenance of Hospitals are to meet on Saturday next Week: videlicet, the First of May, at Two in the Afternoon, in the Painted Chamber.

Confirmation of Do.

The Lords Committees on the Bill for Confirmation and Continuance of Hospitals are to meet on Friday next, the 30th of this April, at Two, in the Painted Chamber.

Concealments.

The Lords Committees on the Bill concerning Concealments are to meet on Thursday next, the 29th of this April, at Two, in the Painted Chamber.

Sir Peter Vanlore's Bill.

Hodie 1^a vice lecta est Billa, An Act to make void certain Assurances, fraudulently made, and set on Foot, by Sir Richard Lydall, Knight, in Deceit of Sir Peter Vanlore, Knight; and to settle and invest the Possession and Interest of the Leases assigned thereby in the said Sir Peter Vanlore, according to other Conveyances made thereof.

Dallson's Petition.

The Petition of Sir Thomas Dalison was read, concerning the Extent of the Lands of his Father Sir Roger Dalison, deceased, and purchased by the Lord Treasurer; and committed to the Lords Committees appointed this Morning for the Petition of Sir Thomas Mounson, concerning the said Extent.

Juratus in causa Domini Thesaurarii:

Witness in Ld. Treasurer's Cause. His Oath.

John Gardyner.

To make true Answers unto such Questions as shall be demanded of him by the House, or any Committee appointed by the House.

Starkey's Bill.

The Lords Committees on the Bill concerning Ralphe Starkey are to meet on Monday next, at Two, in the Painted Chamber.

Mr. Serjeant Davis and Mr. Serjeant Finch were sent to the Lord Treasurer, with that Part of his Charge which was read this Morning by Mr. Attorney, with this Order: videlicet,

"Die Sabbati, 24° Aprilis, 1624.

Ld. Treasurer ordered to tend to answer his Charge at the Bar.

It is this Day Ordered, by the Lords Spiritual and Temporal in this High Court of Parliament assembled, That the Lord Treasurer appear here on Thursday next, at Nine of the Clock in the Morning, to answer his Charge at the Bar; and also that, if the Lord Treasurer hath any Witnesses to be examined, he may present their Names to the House, to be sworn and examined here between this and the same Day.

"Henr. Elsynge,

"Clericus Parliamentorum."

The Messengers were also commanded to deliver this Message to the Lord Treasurer: videlicet,

Message to the Ld. Treasurer.

That this is said to be but Part of the Charge, because there are other Things against him, which are yet in Examination; which when they shall be reported to the House, his Lordship shall be charged therewith, if the House think them fit.

Adjourn.

Dominus Custos Magni Sigilli declaravit præsens Parliamentum continuandum esse usque in diem Lunæ, videlicet, 26^m diem Aprilis proximum, hora nona, Dominis sic decernentibus.