House of Lords Journal Volume 19: 8 July 1714

DIE Jovis, 8 Julii.

Domini tam Spirituales quam Temporales præsentes fuerunt:

PRAYERS.

Answer from H. C. about their Members attending.

The Messengers sent Yesterday to the House of Commons, to desire Leave for such Members of their House who are of the Committee of the South Sea Company for the Assiento to attend this House To-day, reported, "That they had delivered their Message; and that the Commons will return Answer by Messengers of their own."

L. Dingwall, in Scotland, Precedency.

The Lord Balmerino reported from the Lords Committees for Privileges, to whom was referred the Consideration of Papers relating to the Precedency of the Lord Dingwal, in Scotland, as follows; (videlicet,)

"That the Committee have considered a Charter of Confirmation, by King James the First of England and Sixth of Scotland, granted to the Lord Dingwall, with the Title and Dignity of Lord of Parliament, bearing Date the 8th of June 1609; and having likewise considered the Lord Cranstoun's Patent, bearing Date the 19th of November 1609; are of Opinion, That the Lord Dingwall should be inserted in the Roll of the Nobility in Scotland, immediately before the Lord Cranstoun."

Which Report, being read by the Clerk, was agreed to by the House.

Walker's Bill:

The Lord Bishop of London reported from the Lords Committees, to whom the Bill, intituled, "An Act for making effectual an Agreement made by the Commissioners for building Fifty new Churches with John Walker Esquire, for Ground in The Strand, to build One of the new Churches upon," was committed: That they had considered thereof, and gone through the same; and think it fit to pass, without any Amendment."

Then, the Bill being read the Third Time;

The Question was put, "Whether this Bill shall pass?"

It was Resolved in the Affirmative.

Interest reducing Bill:

Hodie 3^a vice lecta est Billa, intituled, "An Act to reduce the Rate of Interest, without any Prejudice to Parliamentary Securities."

The Question was put, "Whether this Bill shall pass?"

It was Resolved in the Affirmative.

Message to H. C. that the Lords agree to the Two preceding Bills.

A Message was sent to the House of Commons, Sir Thomas Gery and Mr. Rogers:

To acquaint them, that the Lords have agreed to the Two Bills aforementioned, without any Amendment.

Bishops Lands in Scotland, Bill.

Hodie 1^a vice lecta est Billa, intituled, "An Act to appoint Commissioners, to inquire into the Value of the Rents and Revenues which belonged to the Archbishops and Bishops in that Part of Great Britain called Scotland, and into the Value of all Grants and Alienations of the same since the Year 1689; and to what Uses, and upon what Considerations, the same have been granted."

Ordered, That the said Bill be read a Second Time on Monday next.

Wrecks, for preserving, Bill:

The Lord Delawar reported from the Committee of the whole House, to whom the Bill, intituled, "An Act for the preserving all such Ships, and Goods thereof, which shall happen to be forced on Shore, or stranded, upon the Coasts of this Kingdom, or any other of Her Majesty's Dominions," was committed, the Amendments made by the Committee to the said Bill.

Which were read Twice, and agreed to.

Then the Bill was read the Third Time.

And the Question being put, "Whether this Bill, with the Amendments, shall pass?"

It was Resolved in the Affirmative.

Message to H. C. with Amendments to it.

A Message was sent to the House of Commons, by Sir Thomas Gery and Mr. Rogers:

To acquaint them, that the Lords have agreed to the said Bill, with some Amendments, whereunto their Lordships desire their Concurrence.

Commons refuse Leave for their Members to attend, the Cause not being specified:

A Message was brought from the House of Commons, by Mr. Bulteel and others:

To acquaint this House, that the House of Commons, doth not think fit to give Leave to their Members to go to the House of Lords; their Lordships having not, in their Message, specified the Cause upon which their Lordships desire their Attendance.

Cause specified:

Hereupon, a Message was sent to the House of Commons, by Mr. Holford and Mr. Lovibond:

To acquaint them, that this House having this Day under their Examination Matters relating to the South Sea Company, which are of great Consequence to the Trade of this Kingdom, do desire that such Members of the House of Commons as are of the Committee of the South Sea Company for the Assiento, and William Lownds Esquire, may have Leave to attend this House.

Leave given.

The Messengers sent to the House of Commons return Answer:

That they do give Leave to such Members of their House as are of the Committee of the South Sea Company for the Assiento, and to William Lownds Esquire, another of their Members, to go to the House of Lords, if they think fit.

Queen's Answer to the Representation concerning the Three explanatory Articles of the Treaty of Commerce with Spain:

The Lord Chancellor reported, That he, with the House, did Yesterday present to Her Majesty their humble Representation; and that Her Majesty was pleased to return the following most Gracious Answer:

"My Lords,

"It has been My Care to procure all possible Advantages for My Subjects in Trade.

"And I shall continue My utmost Endeavour to obtain further Benefits; and particularly in the Trade with Spain, which is so useful to My Subjects."

Representation and Answer to be printed.

Ordered, That the said Representation, and Her Majesty's most Gracious Answer thereunto, be forthwith printed and published.

Trade with Spain:

The House (according to Order) proceeded to take into further Consideration the State of the Trade of this Kingdom with Spain and The West Indies.

And several Proceedings, out of the Book laid before this House by the South Sea Company, were read.

Commissioners of Trade, Clerks, &c. examined:

Then the Commissioners of Trade, and Mr. Popple their Secretary, attending, were called in, and examined touching their Knowledge of any Letter writ from Monsieur Orry, either to Mr. Moor or Mr. Gilligan.

And withdrew.

Then the several Clerks belonging to the Office of the Board of Trade were called in; and, upon Oath, asked, "Whether they had ever seen a Grant to Her Majesty, from the King of Spain, of any Reservations to Himself out of the Assiento Contract?"

Bryan Wheelock thereupon declared to this Effect:

"That he saw a Paper, in French, of an Indulto to the Queen, from the King of Spain, of certain Reservations out of the Assiento Contract; and, by an Endorsement which he wrote thereon, a Grant was made to Mr. Moor, from the Queen, of the Advantages therein mentioned."

But all the other Clerks, severally, declaring their Ignorance of any such Matter, they withdrew.

Then Mr. Moor was called in, and examined touching the same.

Moore examined:

Who acknowledged, "That there were Two Promissory Notes from the King of Spain to Her Majesty, of such Interest as the King of Spain had in the Assiento Contract, and which are now in his Custody; but knows of no Endorsement thereon: And believes Wheelock might make a Copy of them for him; but knows not of any Endorsement on the Copies, nor whether they are at this Time in his Custody."

And, offering to fetch the said Notes, he was desired so to do: and, if he could find the Copies, to bring them also.

And withdrew, for that Purpose.

Wheelock examined:

Then Bryan Wheelock, at the Bar, was directed to write down the Substance of what he had declared; which he accordingly did.

And the same being read, was signed by him; and is as follows:

"I have seen a French Paper, importing, to the best of my Remembrance, an Assignment or Transfer to Her Majesty, from the King of Spain, of certain Reservations which His Majesty had made to Himself out of the Assiento Contract; and the said Paper, to the best of my Knowledge, was signed Philippe. Mr. Moore shewed me the said Paper, to the best of my Memory, at Windsor; and employed me to write a Transfer of the same Reservations, in order to be signed, as I believe, by Her Majesty. I cannot be positive whether the Transfer, or Draught of a Transfer, which I writ by Mr. Moore's Direction, was on the Back of the same French Paper abovementioned, or on a separate Paper; but believe it might be on the same Paper. The said Draught of a Transfer was, to the best of my Remembrance, from Her Majesty to Mr. Moore.

"Bryan Wheelock."

Lowndes and Taylor examined:

Then Mr. Lownds and Mr. Taylor attending, were called in, and examined as to their being Trustees for Her Majesty's Quarter Part of the Assiento Contract.

And withdrew.

Committee of South Sea Directors, for the Assiento, examined.

Also, Mr. Shepherd, Sir Samuel Clark, Sir Theodore Jansen, Mr. Harcourt Masters, Mr. Chapman, and Mr. Blunt, Directors of the South Sea Company, were called in; and examined, upon Oath, in relation to Her Majesty's Quarter Part of the Assiento Contract.

And withdrew.

The House being informed Mr. Moore was attending, he was called in; and delivered, at the Bar, the Two original Papers aforementioned, and the Copies of them writ by Wheelock.

And withdrew.

Then Bryan Wheelock was called in; and the said Papers were shewed to him; and, there appearing no Endorsement on either of them, he humbly prayed, "That Mr. James Cranberg, a Private Clerk to Mr. Moore, might be examined, touching the Endorsement mentioned in his Deposition."

And withdrew.

Ordered, That the said James Cranberg do forthwith attend this House.

Then Captain Johnson, late Commander of Her Majesty's Ship The Anglesea (attending also, according to Order), was called in; and examined, upon Oath, concerning any Proposal made to him for taking Goods on Board the said Ship for The South Seas.

And withdrew.

Address for the Assiento Contract to be granted to the S. S. C°. without Reservation to Gilligan or others, Motion for, not agreed to;

Then, it being proposed, "That an humble Address be presented to Her Majesty, that the whole Assiento Contract be granted and assigned to the South Sea Company, for their own Use and Benefit, without any Reservation to Mr. Gilligan, or any other Person whatsoever, except of the Fourth Part which is reserved to the King of Spain by the Assiento Contract;"

And Debate thereupon:

The Question was put, " That such an Address be presented to Her Majesty?"

It was Resolved in the Negative.

and for Indultos, &c. reserved to the King of Spain by the Contract, and assigned to the Queen, to be remitted to the S. S. C°. not agreed to.

Then it was proposed, "That an humble Address be presented to Her Majesty, that all Indultos, Prosits, or Advantages, reserved to the King of Spain by the Assiento Contract, the Two Licenses, Validations, or any Reservations relating thereto, which Her Majesty is or may be entitled to, by virtue of any Agreement or Assignment from the King of Spain to Her Majesty, may be remitted to the South Sea Company."

After Debate;

The Question was put, "That such an Address be presented to Her Majesty?"

It was Resolved in the Negative.

Representation to the Queen, that the Benefit of the Contract, &c. has been obstructed, by unwarrantable Endeavours to gain private Advantages:

Then it being proposed, "That an humble Representation be made to Her Majesty, That the Benefit of the Assiento Contract and of the Licenses have been greatly obstructed, by unwarrantable Endeavours to gain private Advantages to particular Persons."

After Debate;

The Question was put, "That such a Representation be made to Her Majesty?"

It was Resolved in the Negative.

Protest against rejecting it.

"Dissentient.

"1st, Because, as we humbly conceive, the great Delays in this Negotiation, which lasted above Twelve Months, could not proceed from any other Motive; since it would have been infinitely more advantageous to the Public, to have had all Matters settled immediately.

"2dly, The several Turns that this Affair took, the several Methods used to obtain greater Advantages to the Assignees, seemed to us plainly to shew, that the Interest of particular Persons was the chief Aim in this Transaction.

"In the First Draught of the Assignment from the Queen of the Assiento Contract, the Queen was made Co-partner with the Company. But when there was found insuperable Difficulty in this, it was offered, "That the Queen should assign to particular Persons, who should become Members with the Company, pay in their Proportion of the Joint Stock, and be subject to all other Rules of the Contract."

"After this had been long transacting, the Scene changed; and the Company were now told, "That the Queen expected Her Assignees should be, in all respects, on the same Foot as She Herself would have been; and did not think it hard for the Company to make all the Advances." These new Hardships gave a great Alarm to the Company; and in a General Court there was great Contention, Whether the Assiento should be accepted or not; and with Difficulty it was determined to receive it, even with Conditions that did in some Measure alleviate these new Impositions.

"Things being come to this Pass, a Noble Lord condescended to treat with some of the Directors about the Proportion of Money that the Assignees should advance; and to promise them great Benefits, if they would be easy to the Assignees in those Conditions. On the Company's Compliance with this Proposal, a new Method was sound of settling this in Chancery: But the Counsel for the Company having, in the Answer of the Assignees, inserted Words that were thought too restrictive and too binding on the Assignees to secure their Payments to the Company, great Disputes and Warmth arose on that Occasion; and the Writings were stopped several Weeks, before this could be adjusted. Afterwards the Assignees, named in the Schedules, appearing to be only Trustees of the Crown, who are afterwards to make a Declaration of Trust, and to assign over to other Persons, the Counsel for the Company gave their Opinion, "That it was not safe for the Company to accept the Assiento upon those Terms, it being liable to all the Objections that were made to the Proposition a Year before."

"3dly, It having been proposed by the Company, when they foresaw great Delays in settling the Assignment of the Assiento, " That the Licenses for the Two Ships should be dispatched," which were to take Place even before the Peace, that the Cargo they had provided might have been sent away, to be there at the Fair, when the Galleons which were then sailing should arrive: This great Advantage to the Public was refused them, for no better Reason, as we conceive, than that the Assignees of the Crown might not then have had their Share in the Advantage. By this Means the Company's Ships have lain long at Demurrage; and they have paid Interest for the Money advanced, while the Cargo continues useless, and in a perishing Condition.

"Two Seasons of sailing are passed; and the great Advantage of coming early to a Market, after a long War, is entirely lost to the Public.

"Lastly, Several of the Court of Directors declared, upon Oath, at our Bar, That Mr. Moor, who is known to have been in the Secret, and to be in the utmost Confidence with those who have transacted this whole Matter, advised them to give a Sum of Money to the Assignees, to remove the Obstruction.

Somerset.
Bolton.
Grafton.
Devonshire. Greenwich.
Townshend.
Lincoln.
Nottingham. Scarbrough.
Berkeley.
Rochford.
T. Wharton.
Halifax.
Rockingham.
Orford.
Cowper.
Gernsey.
Bradford.
Haversham.
Foley.
Gi. Sarum.

Address of Thanks to the Queen, for giving up the Assiento Contract, &c. to the Public.

Ordered, by the Lords Spiritual and Temporal in Parliament assembled, That an humble Address be presented to Her Majesty, to return Her Majesty the Thanks of this House, for Her Majesty's having so generously given not only the Licenses for the Two Ships of Six Hundred Tons each, and the Assiento Contract, but also the Quarter Part which Her Majesty was pleased at first to reserve to Herself; and that Her Majesty will be graciously pleased, that such other Advantages, which are or may be vested in Her Majesty, may be disposed of for the Use of the Public.

Ordered, That the said Address be presented to Her Majesty by the Lords with White Staves.

Adjourn.

Dominus Cancellarius declaravit præsens Parliamentum continuandum esse usque ad & in diem Veneris, nonum diem instantis Julii, hora undecima Auroræ, Dominis sic decernentibus.