House of Lords Journal Volume 17: 12 January 1704

DIE Mercurii, 12 Januarii.

Domini tam Spirituales quam Temporales præsentes fuerunt:

PRAYERS.

Ivory's Bill.

Hodie 1^a vice lecta est Billa, intituled, "An Act for supplying the Defect of the Execution of the Power of Sir John Ivory Knight deceased, for making Provision for his Younger Children."

The Question was put, "Whether this Bill shall pass?"

It was Resolved in the Affirmative.

Message to H. C. with it.

A Message was sent to the House of Commons, by Mr. Rogers and Mr. Hiccocks:

To carry down the said Bill, and desire their Concurrence thereunto.

E. of Montagu's Bill.

Hodie 1^a vice lecta est Billa, intituled, "An Act for settling and confirming several Exchanges, with Ralph Earl Montagu, of several Lands and Common of Simon Motton and others, lying in Gedington, in the County of Northampton, for several Lands of the said Earl's lying near to the same; and for confirming several Agreements relating to the said Exchanges."

Messages from H. C. with Bills.

A Message from the House of Commons, by Mr. Conyers and others:

Who brought up a Bill, intituled, "An Act for granting an Aid to Her Majesty, by continuing the Duties upon Malt, Mum, Cyder, and Perry, for One Year;" to which they desire the Concurrence of this House.

A Message from the House of Commons, by Sir Cyrill Wyche and others:

Who brought up a Bill, intituled, "An Act for vesting several Estates, in the Counties of Cornwall and Devon, and several Leasehold Estates, in Trustees, to be sold, for raising Portions for the Younger Children of George Lord Carteret deceased; and for laying out the Overplus of the Money raised by such Sales in Purchase of other Lands;" to which they desire the Concurrence of this House.

Ld. Carteret's Bill.

Hodie 1^a vice lecta est Billa, intituled, "An Act for vesting several Estates in the Counties of Cornwall and Devon, and several Leasehold Estates, in Trustees, to be sold, for raising Portions for the Younger Children of George Lord Carteret deceased; and for laying out the Overplus of the Money raised by such Sales in Purchase of other Lands."

Sir Robert Kemp's Bill.

Hodie 1^a vice lecta est Billa, intituled, "An Act for vesting Lands in Essex, devised by Sir Robert Kemp Knight deceased, to the Children and Grandchildren of Elizabeth Outlaw, One of his Sisters and Coheirs, in Trustees, to be sold, for the Benefit of the Devisees."

Frampton's Bill.

Hodie 1^a vice lecta est Billa, intituled, "An Act for the better vesting in Giles Frampton Esquire, the Manor and Farm of Morcton, alias Morton, and Hurst, in the County of Dorsett, in Possession; and for the better securing the same, and the other Manors, Farms, Messuages, Lands, Tenements, and Hereditaments, late of William Frampton Esquire deceased, to him the said Giles Frampton, and such as are entitled in Remainder after him, upon the Death of Tregonnell Frampton Esquire."

Sir George Wheler's Bill.

The Earl of Winchilsea reported from the Lords Committees, the Bill, intituled, "An Act to enable Sir George Wheler Knight, and Doctor in Divinity, to make Leases of several Houses and Ground in Channon Row, in Westminster," as fit to pass, with some Amendments.

Which were read Twice, and agreed to; and the Bill ORDERED to be engrossed, with the said Amendments.

Jarman's Bill.

The Earl of Winchilsea also reported from the Lords Committees, the Bill, intituled, "An Act for the vesting of Nine Messuages, in the Parish of Saint Giles in the Fields, in the County of Middl'x, being the Estate of William Jarman and Mary his Wife, in Trustees, to be sold; and for settling, in Lieu thereof, a Messuage and certain Lands in Whipsnade, Tettrenboe, and Studbam, in the County of Bedford," as fit to pass, with some Amendments.

Which were read Twice, and agreed to; and the Bill ordered to be engrossed, with the said Amendments.

Foote's Bill.

Hodie 1^a vice lecta est Billa, intituled, "An Act to enable Arabella Foote to lay out Monies belonging to her Son Topham Foote in Purchases of Lands for his Benefit."

Lord Grey Wark & al. Bill.

The Lord Sommers reported from the Lords Committees, the Bill, intituled, "An Act for confirming the Execution of a certain Agreement, made between Ralph Lord Grey Baron of Warke, and Charles Lord Ossulstone and the Lady Mary his Wife, touching certain Manors, Lands, and Tenements, in the Counties of Northumberland, Midd'x, and City of London; and also between Lawrence Earl of Rochester and the said Lord Grey, concerning other Manors, Lands, and Tenements, in the said County of Northumberland, County Palatine of Durham, and Town of Berwick upon Tweed," as fit to pass, with some Amendments.

Which were read Twice, and agreed to; and the Bill ordered to be engrossed, with the said Amendments.

Sir John Astley, Leave for a Bill.

Upon reading the Petition of Sir John Astley, of Patteshall, in the County of Stafford, Baronet, an Infant, by Dame Henrietta Astley his Mother and Guardian; praying Leave to bring in a Bill, for settling his Estate, and to buy in any Rent Charges thereupon:

It is ORDERED, by the Lords Spiritual and Temporal in Parliament assembled, That the Petitioner hath hereby Leave given to bring in a Bill, as desired.

Ash, Leave for a Bill.

Upon reading the Petition of Dame Mary Ash Widow; praying Leave to bring in a Bill, for the settling of her Daughter's Fortune, by purchasing Lands therewith; and settling the same on her, and her Issue in Remainder after her, as usual in Case of Marriage Settlements, if she have any Issue, and not subject to the Control of Philip Packer her Husband, and so as the same may not be any Ways liable to the Debts of the said Philip Packer, or his Father or Grandfather:

It is ORDERED, by the Lords Spiritual and Temporal in Parliament assembled, That the Petitioner hath hereby Leave given to bring in a Bill, as desired.

Stribblehill versus Brett.

Upon reading the Petition of Frances Stribblehill, Widow and Administratrix of John Stribblehill Gentleman, deceased; shewing, "That, in her Appeal depending in this House, there is a Mistake of a Date of the Decree in Chancery, by inserting the Sixteenth Day of November last, whereas it ought to have been the Thirteenth Day of November last; and that her urgent Occasions obliged her to go out of Town before she had given Security to abide the Judgement of this House; and praying, that she may have Liberty to alter the Date of the Decree, and give Security by Two sufficient Persons:"

It is ORDERED, by the Lords Spiritual and Temporal in Parliament assembled, That the Petitioner hath hereby Liberty to alter the Date of the Decree mentioned in her Appeal; and that Security shall be taken by Two sufficient Persons, for the Petitioner, as desired.

Dobson versus Herne.

It is ORDERED, by the Lords Spiritual and Temporal in Parliament assembled, That this House will hear the Cause wherein William Dobson is Appellant and Gilbert Hearne Respondent, on Thursday the Twentieth Day of this Instant January, at Eleven a Clock in the Forenoon.

Ld. Mohun versus D. Hamilton.

After reading the Petition of James Duke of Hamilton and Elizabeth Dutchess of Hamilton his Wife; praying further Time for answering to the Appeal of Charles Lord Mohun, the Duke being sick, and not able to come to Town; this House having formerly given further Time to the said Duke for answering to the said Appeal:

It is this Day ORDERED, by the Lords Spiritual and Temporal in Parliament assembled, That this House will peremptorily hear the said Cause, by Counsel, at the Bar, on Wednesday the Six and Twentieth Day of this Instant January, at Ten a Clock in the Forenoon; and that, in the mean Time, the Duke and Dutchess of Hamilton may answer to the said Appeal, if they think fit.

Judges to attend.

It is ORDERED, by the Lords Spiritual and Temporal in Parliament assembled, That all the Judges of Her Majesty's Court of Queen's Bench do attend this House on Friday next, at Ten a Clock in the Forenoon.

Cary, Leave for a Bill.

Upon reading the Petition of William Cary Esquire; praying Leave to bring in a Bill, to vest the Manors of Yeovilton, and other Lands in Cornwall (not comprized in his Marriage Settlement) in Trustees, to be sold, for Payment of a Mortgage and other Incumbrances; and to enable the Petitioner to make Provision for his Younger Children.

It is ORDERED, by the Lords Spiritual and Temporal in Parliament assembled, That the Petitioner hath hereby Leave given him to bring in a Bill, as desired.

Gresham College, Improvement of, Bill.

It is ORDERED, by the Lords Spiritual and Temporal in Parliament assembled, That this House shall be put into a Committee, on Monday next, at Eleven a Clock, upon the Bill, intituled, "An Act for the better enabling the Mayor and Commonalty and Citizens of the City of London, and the Wardens and Commonalty of the Mystery of Mercers of the said City, to pay the Charities given by the last Will and Testament of Sir Thomas Gresham;" and that on that Day all the Lecturers of Gresham Colledge do attend; and that the Mayor, Commonalty, and Citizens of London, and the Wardens and Commonalty of the Mystery of Mercers of London, do give Order and take Care that the Books of the said City, and the Books of the said Mystery of Mercers, be laid before this House, which relate to the Matters contained in the Bill, and the Charity of Gresham Colledge, on Saturday next, at Eleven a Clock in the Forenoon.

Stribblehill versus Brett.

Upon reading the Petition of Henry Brett and Richard Brett, Respondents to the Appeal of Frances Stribblehill; shewing, "That the Petitioners have obtained Two Verdicts at Law, on Two Trials at Bar; and, after Four Hearings of the Cause in Chancery, the Appellant hath brought her Appeal into this House, to which the Petitioners have put in their Answers; and praying a Day may be appointed for hearing thereof:

It is ORDERED, by the Lords Spiritual and Temporal in Parliament assembled, That this House will hear the said Cause, by Counsel, at the Bar, on Friday the One and Twentieth Day of this Instant January, at Ten a Clock in the Forenoon.

E. Bath's Committee.

It is ORDERED, by the Lords Spiritual and Temporal in Parliament assembled, That the Lord Bishop of Norwich, the Lord Wharton, Lord Mohun, and Lord Sommers, shall be added to the Earl of Bathe's Committee.

Lord Dillon's Committee.

It is ORDERED, by the Lords Spiritual and Temporal in Parliament assembled, That the Earl of Sandwich, the Lord Bishop of Chester, and the Lord Lovelace, be added to the Lord Viscount Dillon's Committee; which is to meet To-morrow, at Ten a Clock in the Forenoon.

Causes removed.

Whereas To-morrow was appointed, for hearing the Errors argued upon the Writ of Error, wherein Mathew Ashby is Plaintiff, and William White and others are Defendants:

It is ORDERED, by the Lords Spiritual and Temporal in Parliament assembled, That this House will hear the Errors argued thereupon, on Friday the Fourteenth Day of this Instant January, at Ten a Clock in the Forenoon; and that all the Judges do then attend; and that the other Causes and Businesses be removed in Course.

Boucher & al. Report of their Examinations, to be entered.

Whereas, on Tuesday the One and Twentieth Day of December last, the Lord Steward reported from the Lords Committees, the Examinations of Boucher, and Ogleby and others, taken with them; which were read, and laid before Her Majesty; and the same having not been entered in the Journal of this House:

It is this Day ORDERED, by the Lords Spiritual and Temporal in Parliament assembled, That the said Report shall be entered in the Journal of this House.

Which said Report is as follows; (videlicet,)

Boucher's:

The Lords of the Committee, appointed to examine Boucher and others, thought it their Duty to proceed with all possible Expedition in a Matter of such a Nature as could not but raise a great Expectation.

They have accordingly proceeded to examine Mr. Boucher, who has been brought Three Times before them.

He confessed to the Committee, That he served as a Major in Colonel Luttrell's Regiment, in the late King James's Army in Ireland; and that from thence he went into France, and continued there till the last Winter; during all that Time, he served the Duke of Berwick as Gentleman of the Horse and as Aid de Camp, and looked after all his Affairs till the Time of his now coming for England; that he was offered a Commission by the Duke of Berwick a great while since, but declined it, and only served in the Armies as an Aid de Camp: He affirms, that, from the Time he went to France, he never came back to England till the last Year; particularly, that he was not in England with the Duke of Berwick in the late King's Time; but was ordered by King James to meet the Duke of Berwick at Calais, on his Return from England.

That the last Year he obtained a Pass to come for England, procured for him by the Earl of Middleton, upon Pretence to bring over his Son to learn English; and lest St. German's in January, and came down The Loire, and by I' Isle de Dieu and Bell Isle, and landed at Southampton in the open Day.

That he stayed in England at that Time about Five or Six Weeks, and kept himself concealed; and, as he says, saw very few Persons besides his Relations.

That he went from England in a Packet Boat in April, with an Intention to go for Holland; and had a Pass, by the Name of Welfret, which was procured for him by one O'Farrell, an Irish Priest; and that the Packet Boat was taken by a French Privateer, and carried into Ostend, from whence he returned to St. German's.

"That he was present with the French Officers at the Exchange of Prisoners in Flanders last Campaign.

That he left Saint German's on Tuesday or Wednesday last was Fortnight; had a Pass to come for England, procured for him by the Earl of Middleton; and came by the Way of Diepe.

That his Daughter had a Pass, to come over as a Servant to Mr. Ogilby, with whom Boucher had not been acquainted above Three Months before; and that he and Ogilby, and the rest of the Prisoners, came over in a French Boat, and were landed near Beachy.

"But he has refused to give the Committee an Account of any Thing material which passed at Saint German's or elsewhere in France, during all the Time he has been there, or which passed during all the Time he was in England the last Year, or since his Return into France, till the Time he was apprehended; which the Committee humbly submit to the Judgement of the House.

"The Committee also inform your Lordships, That they have examined Captain Ogilby Twice.

Captain Ogilby's:

He said, He was a Scotsman; and that the Ground of his leaving France was by reason of the Proclamation of Indemnity in Scotland, which they heard of about May last; and thereupon the Scots generally left France.

He said, He went into France soon after the late King James went first thither, and served in the French Army in Catalonia; he carried Arms as a common Soldier, and afterwards had a Commission as a Reformed Captain; he served in Colonel Brown's Company of Reformed Officers.

That he went from France into Scotland, about Eight or Nine Years since, in Hopes of finding Favour by Means of his Friends there, and was examined before the Privy Council in Scotland, who had nothing against him; but he finding he could not live peaceably there, nor be employed, because he could not take the Oaths, he came into England, and continued in London about Seven Months, and then returned to France by the Way of Flanders.

That, upon the making of the Peace, he had a Pension allowed him by King James, of Eight Hundred Livers; which, after King James's Death, was reduced to Five Hundred Livres, and since that, has been lessened Fifty Livres.

That, after his Pension was reduced, he retired to St. Valery, where he lived till about Three Months since, when he went to live at Diepe.

That, about May last, he went to the Court at Saint German's, to solicit a Pass to come for England, which he could not then obtain; that several Scots Officers went away from St. German's, upon the News of the Proclamation of Indemnity.

That, some Time before his coming away from France, he went to the Court a Second Time, to solicit a Pass, which he obtained; he stayed then about a Month at Paris, and Twenty Days at Saint German's.

He said, That he chose to come for England, though he might have gone directly for Scotland, there being several Scottish Ships at Bourdeaux; that another Scottish Ship went from Havre to Scotland.

That he thought to have found the Scottish Nobility here, and hoped some of them would have assisted him to get some Employment.

He has mentioned to the Committee the Names of several Persons, who have been at St. German's, and who have lately left France, and, as he apprehended, may be come for England or Scotland; but the Committee observe to the House, that what he says as to their leaving France, or coming for England, is not upon his own Knowledge.

The Committee humbly submit to your Lordships, whether the Names of these Persons, or what is said of them, should be now laid before the House, or be transmitted to some other proper Hands.

The Committee do also acquaint your Lordships, That he has informed them of several Persons concerned in carrying on an unlawful Commerce between France and England, and of several Matters relating thereto, in which he is more certain and particular than in the Matter before-mentioned.

The Committee also submit to your Lordships, whether these Particulars should be now laid before the House, or be transmitted where Things of this Nature are more usually inquired into.

The Committee have also examined Mrs. Elizabeth Le Sarteur.

Mrs. Le Sazteur's:

She says, Her Maiden Name was Mohun; and that she is now married to the Queen's Cook at St. German's, where she has lived, except for some Time she was in England about Three Years since.

That she came over now to look after some small Matter left between her and her Sister.

She says, She thought Women might come over without License. She insisted on it, that she could not inform the Committee of any Thing material.

The Committee humbly submit this Matter to the House.

The Committee also examined Penelope Boucher, the Daughter of Major Boucher.

Miss Boucher's:

She says, She went into France about Two Years since, being conducted thither by one Mrs. Richardson, who makes it her Business to go over with young Catholic Ladies to Convents.

She went to St. German's, to her Father, where she has continued till she now came for England, with an Intent to stay with her Relations here.

She insisted on it, that she knew nothing material to acquaint the Committee with.

The Committee also examined Mrs. Rebecca Ogilby, the Wife of Captain Ogilby.

Mrs. Ogilby's:

She says, She was married to him in England about Nine Years since; and that they lived in London together about Seven Months, when her Husband went for France, whither she followed him, about Six Years since, and lived for some Time at St. German's; and from thence they went to live at St. Valery; and about Three Months since they went to reside at Diep.

She insists upon it, that she knows nothing material to inform the Committee of.

"The Committee also examined one Scudemore Godwin, a Boy, who came over as a Servant to the other Prisoners.

Godwin's.

He says, He was taken Prisoner in The Truro-Merchant, an English Ship, where he was a Cabbin-boy; and the Gentlemen who are now Prisoners got him his Liberty, in order to come over with them as their Servant; and he was promised that he should return to his Mistress, one Godwyn, who lives in London, as soon as he came to that Place.

The Committee acquaint your Lordships, That Five Letters taken from the Prisoners, by the Messengers, were transmitted to them by the Right Honourable the Earl of Nottingham, of which the Committee did not see any Use could be made; and they humbly submit it to the House, whether the Letters should not be returned to the Earl of Nottingham.

The Committee also inform your Lordships, That, upon searching the Trunks and Portmanteaus of the Prisoners, they found several other Papers; and, amongst them, a Letter without a Direction, and without any Name subscribed: Captain Ogilby has informed the Committee from whom he had it, and to whom he was to convey it. The Committee desire to know your Lordships Pleasure what shall be done with that Letter; as also with another Letter, which Boucher had in his Pocket, and said he received from a Chaplain in the Army.

The Committee also inform your Lordships, That the Prisoners were not kept separate till after they were met by the Guards; and also that the Messengers, being asked by the Committee, "If they had searched the Prisoners for Papers?" made Answer, "That the Prisoners turned their Pockets to them, to shew them what Papers they had; but they did not search them; and they could not say, but that the Prisoners might have many other Papers; and that they did not use to search Prisoners for Papers, without a particular Warrant or Order for that Purpose."

The Committee were ready to have made this Report to your Lordships Yesterday, and came to the House for that Purpose; but found your Lordships just risen."

Address of H. C. Complaining of this House taking Examinations of Conspirators, &c. considered.

The Lord Keeper gave the House an Account of what Letters he had received from some of the absent Lords he writ to, by Command of the House; (videlicet,)

Then the House (pursuant to the Order of the Fourth Instant) took into Consideration a Matter of the highest Consequence, relating to the Privileges of this House, and the Constitution of the Government of this Kingdom.

And, after Debate thereupon, the House came to this Resolution; (videlicet,)

Lords declare their Right to take Examinations of Persons charged with Criminal Matters.

It is Resolved and Declared, by the Lords Spiritual and Temporal in Parliament assembled, That, by the known Law and Custom of Parliaments, this House hath an undoubted Right, whensoever they conceive it to be for the Safety of Her Majesty and the Kingdom, to take Examinations of Persons charged with Criminal Matters, whether they be then in Custody or not."

And afterwards ORDERED, That this House shall proceed further upon the Matter aforesaid To-morrow, at Twelve a Clock; and no other Business to intervene.

Adjourn.

Dominus Custos Magni Sigilli declaravit præsens Parliamentum continuandum esse usque ad et in diem Jovis, decimum tertium diem instantis Januarii, hora undecima Auroræ, Dominis sic decernentibus.