House of Lords Journal Volume 17: 24 February 1703

DIE Mercurii, 24 Februarii.

Domini tam Spirituales quam Temporales præsentes fuerunt:

PRAYERS.

Observation of Commissioners of Accompts, Report of the Committee about, considered.

The Order being read, for taking into Consideration the Report from the Lords Committees upon the Observations of the Commissioners of Accompts:

The First Paragraph in the Report was read.

Mr. Auditor Bridges' Certificate to the Committee, and the several Questions asked him, and his Answers thereto, were read.

After Debate, an Amendment was made in this Paragraph.

Then the Question was put, "Whether this House shall agree to this Paragraph, as amended?"

It was Resolved in the Affirmative.

Then the rest of the Report was read by Paragraphs; and were severally agreed to.

Address upon it; and the Proceedings to be published.

Then the House being moved, "That the Report be laid before the Queen, by Way of Address:"

It was agreed to; and ORDERED, That the same Committee do draw up the Address; and the whole Proceedings to be printed and published.

Occasional Conformity, Bill, Report of Free Conference about.

Then the Lord Steward reported from the Lords Committees appointed to draw up what was offered at the Free Conference, upon the Bill, intituled, "An Act for preventing Occasional Conformity."

Which was read, and is as follows; (videlicet,)

"The Managers for the Lords, at the Free Conference, were, the Duke of Devonshire Lord Steward, the Earl of Peterborow, the Lord Bishop of Salisbury, the Lord Sommers, and the Lord Halifax.

"The Lords of this House, who were commanded to manage the Free Conference with the Commons, on Saturday the 16th of January, did meet the Commons; and the Free Conference was begun by the Managers for the Commons, who were, Mr. Bromley, Mr. St. John, Mr. Finch, Mr. Solicitor General, and Sir Thomas Powys.

"They acquainted the Managers for the Lords, That the Commons had agreed to the Addition of Words their Lordships had made to the Commons Amendments to the Lords Amendment in the 2d Skin, Line 23; but insisted on their Disagreement to the Lords other Amendments, and to their Lordships Clauses marked B. C. D. and E.; and therefore had desired this Free Conference with the Lords, in order to preserve a good Correspondence between the Two Houses.

"That the Interests of the Church and State were not to be supported without it; and, that the Commons might omit nothing to maintain a good Correspondence, they had taken this Way, which had been practised with so good Success by their Ancestors.

"That the Intent of this Bill for preventing Occasional Conformity is only to restrain, to put a Stop to a very scandalous Practice, which is a Reproach to Religion, gives Offence to all good Christians, and to the best among the Dissenters themselves.

"That this Bill enacts nothing new; that it is intended to make the Laws in being more effectual.

"That those Laws were thought sufficient to secure our Establishment; but, since the Invention, since the Iniquity, of Men had found out Ways to evade and elude them, the Commons would never doubt but the Lords would let these Men see they would not be wanting, on their Part, to maintain and support it.

"That this Bill appears to the Commons absolutely necessary, for the preventing those Mischiefs which must prove destructive to the Church and the Monarchy.

"That the Commons were incapable of having any Designs they were ashamed to own: That they designed nothing but the Preservation of the Church of England and the Monarchy; and doubted not to meet with a ready Concurrence from the Lords in their Designs.

"That an established Religion and a National Church are absolutely necessary, when so many ill Men pretend to Inspiration, and when there are so many weak Men to follow them.

"That, if a National Church be necessary, the only effectual Way to preserve it, is by keeping the Civil Power in the Hands of those, whose Practices and Principles are conformable to it.

"That, when the Corporation Act was made, the Parliament had fresh in their Minds the Confusions and Calamities that had been brought upon the Nation by such as pretended to be at the same Time in the true Interest of Religion and their Country: That the Parliament, by that Act, and afterwards by the Test Act, thought they had secured our Establishment both in Church and State; and that they had provided a sufficient Barrier, to defeat and disappoint any Attempts against them, by enacting, that all in Offices should receive the Sacrament of the LORD's Supper, according to the Rites and Usage of the Church of England; and never imagined a Set of Men would, at any Time, rise up, whose Consciences were too tender to obey the Laws, but hardened enough to break through any.

"That as, upon the Revolution, the last Reign began with an Act in Favour of the Dissenters; so the Commons do desire, in the Beginning of Her Majesty's auspicious Reign, an Act may pass in Favour of the Church of England; that the Laws, which have been invaded, may now be effectually enforced; and that those Men may be kept out of Offices, who have shewn they never wanted the Will, when they had the Power, to destroy the Church.

"That nothing had been more misrepresented than this Bill.

"That this Bill does not intrench on the Act of Toleration, and in no respect affects what is enacted by it.

"That this Bill takes not from the Dissenters any One Privilege they have by Law.

"That this Bill gives not any One Privilege to the Church of England, which is not (at least) intended her by the Laws as they now stand.

"Their Managers then acquainted the Lords, that the Commons insisted on their Disagreement to the Second and Third Amendments made by the Lords in the Preamble of the Bill, and on their Disagreement to the Fourth Amendment; and argued,

"That a Preamble is to declare the Occasion of making a Law; it makes no Law; and if it be proper to the Enacting Clause, it is a proper Preamble.

"That the Propositions advanced in this Preamble are these: That whatsoever Persons are enacted to qualify themselves, the Laws intend should be conformable to the Church.

"That if the Laws provide they should receive the Sacrament, and by that intend a Conformity; then whosoever breaks the Intention of the Laws, breaks the Law, or at least evades the Law; and it is sit to secure us against such Practices.

"That, if it be sit the Corporation Clause should stand in the Body, the Lords Reasons for the Amendments in the Preamble will not be of Weight.

"That the Preamble mentions such Persons and such Offices; which must be the Persons and the Offices the Act relates to, and can be no other.

"That the Word "Enacting" can only be understood of the Laws that do so enact; being relative, is still more plain and necessary.

"That, however, and if the Lords had pleased, they might, by a very little Amendment, have ob- viated the Objection they make to these Words, by; changing ["every Person"] into ["several Persons"] which would have reconciled them to the most rigid Construction.

"Then their Managers acquainted the Lords, that they insisted on their disagreeing to the Fifth Amendment; and argued,

"That the Words in the Test Act are more general and uncertain than those in the Corporation Act, which their Managers cited and compared.

"That the Words in the Coporation Act have been there more than Forty Years, without any Inconveniency from them, or any Complaint against them, for their being too general and uncertain.

"That the Inducements for passing the Corporation Act, according to the Preamble, were, That a Succession in Corporations might be perpetuated in the Hands of Persons well affected to the King and the established Government, and for the Preservation of the public Peace both in Church and State.

"That these were the Purposes the Commons designed in the passing this Law.

"That these Purposes, the Commons know, the Lords will with them own, are very proper to be attained; and that the Commons cannot at any Time disown, because they can at no Time have any other.

"That the Lords agree, this Bill should relate to Officers in the Test Act; because the Law intends those Officers should be conformable: And if the Intention of that Law be the Reason to provide against such Evaders of it, the like Intention in the Corpotion Act will serve for a Reason to provide against the Evaders of the Corporation Act.

"That, by Occasional Conformity, the Dissenters may let themselves into the Government of all the Corporations; and it is obvious how far that would influence the Government of the Kingdom.

"That to separate from a Church, which has nothing in it against a Man's Conscience to conform to, is Schism.

"That Schism is certainly a Spiritual Sin, without the superadding of a Temporal Law to make it an Offence.

"This Occasional Conformity declares a Man's Conscience will let him conform; and in such a Man Non-conformity is a wllful Sin: And why should Occasional Conformity be allowed in Corporations, when the Lords agree that out of Corporations it ought not to be allowed?

"That, if it be reasonable, as the Lords allow it is, that he who hath an Office out of a Corporation, though it entitles him perhaps to very little Profit or Trust, should be conformable; it is certainly much more reasonable, that another, who is trusted with Magistracy and Power in a Corporation, and has thereby a greater Influence, should be conformable.

"The Managers for the Commons insisted on their disagreeing to the Lords Eighth Amendment; and argued,

"That, if the Lords were pleased to consider how much greater the Penalties and other Penal Laws were in many Instances than in this Bill; they presumed, the Lords would not think those in this Bill excessive.

"That, in laying Penalties, the Commons shall always endeavour to make them such, as shall neither tempt to Perjury, nor totally discourage Information and Prosecutions; which they thought this Amendment of the Lords would do, should the Commons agree to it.

"Their Managers (fn. 1) insisting on their Disagreement to the Lords 9th Amendment; and argued,

"That the Punishment of Incapacity, the Re-capacitating, and the Increase of Punishment for a Second Offence, are warranted by many Precedents of the like Nature in other Penal Laws.

"That an Incapacity, as qualified by the subsequent Proviso, is a very proper Punishment: That a Second Offence is a Relapse and an Apostacy, which are Circumstances that aggravate and make it more heinous than the First Offence, and therefore deserve an Increase of Punishment.

"That he is indeed reduced to a very unhappy Condition, who is made incapable of serving his Prince and Country; but, in the present Case, our Prince and Country would be in a more unhappy Condition, to be served by such whose Principles are inconsistent with the Good and Welfare of our Establishment.

"That the Commons could never imagine the Lords could infer, from this Incapacity, the taking away the Toleration.

"That the Toleration was intended only for the Ease of tender and scrupulous Consciences, and not to give a License for Occasional Conformity.

"That Conforming and Non-conforming are Contradictions; nothing but a firm Persuasion that our Terms of Communion are sinful and unlawful can justify the one, and that plainly (fn. 2) condemns the other.

"For their insisting on their disagreeing to the Clauses marked B. C. D. and E. their Managers offered these Reasons:

"That the exempting Protestant Dissenters from serving Offices would rather establish Occasional Nonconformity, than prevent Occasional Conformity; and therefore increase, not cure, the Evil the Bill was intended to remedy.

"That the Act of Uniformity, which established the Liturgy and Practice of the Church of England, has provided for the Sermons or Lectures preached or read in the Universities.

"That, these Sermons and Lectures having been in such Manner provided for, it was not thought necessary, when the Act passed in the 16th and in the 22th Car. II^di, to prevent and suppress seditious Conventicles (in both which Acts Conventicles are described as in this Bill), to have any particular Exceptions for them; and yet they were never, by any Constructions, taken to be Conventicles.

"That the allowing an Exemption to such as should be present at the Exercises in the Foreign Reformed Churches, would be to open a Door for the evading this Law.

"That the Places of Governors of some Hospitals are very considerable Preferments, and given as such to the Clergy of the Church of England; and the Commons can never consent, by any Law, to let in the Dissenters to the Enjoyment of them.

"The Managers for the Lords did maintain the Alterations made in the Bill, and the Clauses added to it.

"The Substance of what was said by the Lords Managers was, That the Lords were as desirous as the Commons, to preserve a good Correspondence betwixt the Two Houses.

"That, by their agreeing so far as they have done to this Bill, they have gone a great Way for the preventing the Evil this Bill is intended to remedy; and own it to be a Scandal to Religion, that Persons should conform only for a Place.

"That the Lords do not take, going to a Meeting to be Malum in se; for that the Dissenters are Protestants, and differ from the Church of England only in some little Forms; and therefore the Lords think, Loss of Office a sufficient Punishment, without an Incapacity.

"That it can never be thought, those of the better Sort will be guilty of this Offence; if they are, they lose their Offices: And Loss of Office is a severe Penalty in inferior Officers of the Customs and Excise, and who have little else to subsist on: In short, they will be undone by the Loss of their Office; and this the Lords think severe enough without carrying it much further: This is yet more considerable in Patent Places, which, by a common Custom, are bought and sold, and are of the Nature of Freeholds.

"That Incapacity is too great a Penalty; and that it is hard to imagine any Offence, that is not Capital, can deserve it.

"That there is no more Reason to punish this Offence with Incapacity, than to make it Felony.

"That the Dissenters are not obnoxious to the Government, as when the Corporation Act was made.

"That the most considerable Persons of the Dissenters are well affected to the present Constitution, and are hearty Enemies to the Queen's and Kingdom's Enemies.

"That, in some Corporations, the Lords take the Election of Members to serve in Parliament to be only in such as are concerned in the Government of them, as at Buckingham, &c.; and the Lords would not, by this Bill, deprive Men of their Birthrights.

"That the Lords do not think fit to bring any greater Hardships upon the Dissenters, since great Advantages have accrued from the Act of Toleration.

"That the Dissenters had formerly been seditious, and had appeared in open Rebellion; they then declared both against Church and State.

"But of late, in the greatest Extremity of the Church, they joined with her; when the Bishops were in The Tower, the Dissenters shewed they had no Prejudice to the Church; and so they have continued to behave themselves.

"That the Lords did equally desire a good Correspondence betwixt the Two Houses; and were so satisfied of the Necessity of Union at this Time, that they thought all Measures fatal, that might create any Divisions amongst Protestants at Home, or give any Check to the necessary Union amongst our Allies Abroad, of the Reformed Religion.

"For which Reasons, in a Time of War, they thought Alterations unnecessary and dangerous; and were unwilling to bring any real Hardships upon the Dissenters at this Time, or give them any Cause of Jealousies or Fears.

"That the Toleration hath had such visible and good Effects, hath contributed so much to the Security and Reputation of the Church of England, and produced so good a Temper amongst the Dissenters, that the Lords are unwilling to give the least Discredit to that Act; being sensible, that Liberty of Conscience and gentle Measures are most proper, and have been found most effectual, toward increasing the Church, and diminishing the Number of Dissenters.

"That the Lords apprehend, that some Parts of this Bill by them amended have an Air of Severity improper for this Season; that, though there may be some Things to be found Fault with, yet a proper Time ought to be taken to apply Remedies; that the attempting too hasty Cures have often proved fatal.

"That the Lords could not conceive the Interest of the Church and State were not to be supported without this Bill; since, in Case of such Danger and Necessity, this Remedy must have been proposed before now, by some of those worthy Members of the Church of England, who, in so many Parliaments, since the Toleration, have shewn so much Zeal for the National Church and Government.

"That the Lords think they have sufficiently shewn their Dislike to the Practice of Occasional Conformity, on which they inflict no less a Punishment than Loss of Place; and have consented likewise to a reasonable Fine to be laid on those who are proved guilty of this Crime.

"The Lords cannot but conceive that, if this Bill did enact nothing new, there would not be such a Contest about it; that it is plain, though Occasional Conformity ought always to have been esteemed a Crime, (fn. 3) that the Practice was new, and the Punishment provided by this Law new likewise: The Lords consent to a Punishment; but would proportion the Penalty to the Offence.

"That the Commons give up this Argument, when they propose, for new invented Crimes, new invented Punishments.

"That, as the Commons need not to be ashamed of Designs so laudable as the Preservation of the Church of England and Monarchy; so, the Lords conclude, their Desires of securing the Toleration Act, the Peace and Quiet of the Kingdom at Home, and the Interest of the Nation Abroad, will meet with a fair Construction; especially when they hope the Church is so well secured, by her Doctrine, by the good Laws of the Realm, and the Protection of so pious a Queen, assisted by a Parliament so well affected to the Church and State.

"That the Lords not only allow the Necessity of an established Religion and a National Church; but, being likewise of that National Church, they can never be wanting to those Measures they think proper to secure it: And though, by the First Appearance, the Members of the House of Commons may seem upon this Occasion the most zealous Champions to the National Establishment; yet the Lords think the only Contest between them is, which shall most befriend and take Care of the Church; the One would procure a hasty settled Submission, not so much to be depended upon; the other would obtain for her a more gradual, but a safer, Advantage over those that Dissent from Her; the same End being designed by both, and only some Difference in the Means to attain it.

"That the Lords do not well understand the Inference, that as, upon the Revolution, the last Reign began with an Act in Favour of the Dissenters; so the Commons do desire, in the Beginning of Her Majesty's Reign, an Act may pass in Favour of the Church.

"The Lords conceive, that both Reigns began upon the same Bottom and Foundation; and that, as in this Reign Her Majesty hath been pleased to give gracious Assurances as to Liberty of Conscience, so in the last, the Church ever met with Protection and Support.

"That the Interest of both Princes is, to support the Church against her Enemies: That it is hard, as well as untrue, to say of the Dissenters, they never wanted the Will, when they had the Power, to destroy the Church and State; since, in the last and greatest Danger the Church was exposed to, they joined with her, with all imaginable Zeal and Sincerity, against the Papists, their common Enemies; shewing no Prejudice to the Church, but the utmost Respect to Her Bishops when sent to The Tower; and that ever since they have continued to shew all the Signs of Friendship and Submission to the Government of Church and State.

"That, in Truth, formerly the Dissenters had been seditious, and in Arms and Opposition to the State and Church; but it was the Effect of Persecution; and that, even then, they were open and avowed Enemies; but that Toleration and Tenderness had never missed of procuring Peace and Union, as Persecution had never failed producing the contrary Effects.

"That the Lords cannot think the Dissenters can properly be called Schismatics, at least that differ in no essential Point; that such an Opinion allowed, would bring a heavy Charge upon the Church of England, who, by a Law, have tolerated such a Schism; that Connivance hath been used to Schismatics; that public Allowance was never given to such; and the Churchmen having allowed Communion with the Reformed Churches Abroad professing Calvinism, it must follow, they hold them not guilty of Schism, or could not allow Communion with them.

"That this Bill inflicts a Second Punishment on those who fled from France for their Religion; that they sought a very improper Refuge, amongst those that must think them guilty of Schism, and must use them accordingly; that this may be used as an Argument to justify even the Persecution in France. Why may not the Roman Catholics, with Reason, banish those, that even Protestants can hardly endure amongst them; and for whose Doctrine and Practice they shew such an Aversion, that a Man must forfeit his Place, and undergo a hard Penalty, but for entering Once into their Congregation?

"That the Lords cannot depart from the Clause relating to the Dutch and Walloon Churches so long established amongst us, lest it should give great Disgust and Offence to our Allies Abroad, and at the same Time forfeit the greatest Character can be given a Church, that of Tenderness and Charity to Fellow Christians; the contrary Practice being what is so much abhorred amongst Roman Catholics.

"That, though the Lords allow, that no Man hath a Place by Birth-right, or but few such Examples in our Government; yet that giving a Vote for a Representative in Parliament is the essential Privilege whereby every Englishman preserves his Property, and that whatsoever deprives him of such Vote, deprives him of his Birth-right.

"The Lords are of Opinion, the Dissenters should have Liberty of Conscience; but agree to the further Measures proposed by the Commons, to allow neither Dissenters nor Occasional Conformists any Share in the Government: But they take this to be the great Security for the established Religion, that all who sit in the House of Commons must be Churchmen: and the Difference between a Churchman chose by Churhmen, and chose by Dissenters, is only this, that the former will be for using severer, the other gentler Means, for bringing the Dissenters into the Church.

"That the disagreeing to the Clause relating to Workhouses where the Poor were employed and relieved, seems very hard; since it could never be conceived, that the Distribution of some Presbyterian Bread to the Poor, and Dissenting Water-gruel to the Sick, could ever bring any Prejudice to the Church of England; especially by such that, having no Authority in the Government, or Profit by the Administration of such Charities, gave them indifferently to those of all Persuasions.

"Allow them Charity to cover their Sins, which GOD allows and commands.

"That the Lords conceived, the Act of Toleration visibly proved, to the Advantage of the Church, that even the Practice of Occasional Conformity in a few, as it had done great Prejudice to the Dissenters, so had it added to the Reputation and Authority of the Church; the Dissenters having determined the Point against themselves by this Practice; for, if they can conform for a Place, much more ought they to do so in Compliance with the Law, and for the Sake of Unity: But One or Two Instances of this in so long a Time.

"That the Lords are of Opinion, the Dissenters are coming into the Church, and that nothing but terrifying Measures and Severity can prevent the happy Union.

"The main Design of this Bill is, to secure the Church of England; and in this the Lords do perfectly agree with the Commons; both Sides of the House join in it with equal Zeal: And the main Point of this Bill being the excluding all Persons from Employments of Trust, who join themselves to any other Bodies for Religious Worship, besides the Church of England; the Lords do agree entirely with them likewise in this; all the Difference is, what further Penalties should be laid, besides the Forfeiture of the Employment, on Persons so offending.

"The Lords look on the fixing of Qualifications for Places of Trust, to be a Thing so entirely lodged with the Legislature, that, without giving any Reason for it, upon any Apprehension of Danger, how remote soever, every Government may put such Rules, Restraints, or Conditions, on all who serve in any Place of Trust, as they shall see Cause for; but Penalties and Punishments are of another Nature.

"Draco's Laws, by reason of their extreme Severity, are said to have been writ in Blood; if Petty Larceny were made Capital, here would be just Occasion for Censure.

"There ought to be a Proportion observed between the Offence and the Punishment; and Offences of a lower Nature ought not to be punished more severely than Offences of a higher Nature.

"Popery has been ever looked on, as that which we ought to apprehend and fear the most, and guard chiesly against it, being our most inveterate, most restless, and most formidable Enemy; and therefore there has been always a great Difference put between Papist and Protestant Dissenters, how bad and dangerous soever they may be.

"There has been a Spirit of Moderation eminently conspicuous in the whole Progress of our Legislation, with relation to that Religion, suitable both to the natural Gentleness of this Government, and to the Charity which our Religion teaches.

"In the First Beginning of our Reformation, under Edward the VIth, the Act of Uniformity was conceived in Terms suitable to that Moderation.

"(2 & 3 Ed'd VI. Cap. 1.) Any Clergyman, that should use any other Manner of Mass, wilfully standing in the same, or that should preach against the Book of Common Prayer, for the First Offence was only to forfeit One Year's Profits of any One of his Spiritual Preferments, with Six Months Imprisonment. Here was a mild Punishment, even of a Clergyman offending; and yet that was not inflicted, unless he continued obstinate.

"By the same Act, if any of the Laity should procure or compel any to use any other Form of Worship in a Cathedral or Parish Church; even for so public an Affront to the established Religion, he was only to be fined in Ten Pounds, or to suffer Three Months Imprisonment.

"With this Gentleness was our Reformation at first set up; and though perhaps it may be suggested that, by this Mildness, Papists were so favourably used, that they had it soon in their Power to lay that Work in the Dust, and to burn those who had used them so mercifully; yet, when Things were happily re-established by Queen Elizabeth, though the Penalties were a little heightened, still the Moderation of that Time was eminent.

"A Clergyman, that before for his First Offence had forfeited One Year's Profits of any One Preferment, did, by the Act of the Queen, forfeit One Year of all his Preferments; and the Procurers or Compellers of using another Form of Worship, even in a Cathedral, were fined in an Hundred Marks.

"With such gentle Methods was our Reformation at first established. And when the many Conspiracies against the Life of that Queen forced the Government to greater Severities, yet, in the Statute of the Twentythird of the Queen, the Hearing of Mass was indeed made more Penal; One Hundred Marks was set for the Fine, with a Year's Imprisonment; but with this Temper, that if the Person accused did, before Judgement, submit and conform, he was to be discharged. This is the highest Severity to which our Laws have carried the Hearing of Mass; and here is an easy Way provided to escape it. I need not observe, that the Penalty of this Bill goes higher, and is not so easily avoided.

"A Papist Convict, as soon as he conforms himself, and receives the Sacrament, is immediately cleared; no Incapacity lies upon him: But this Act carries that Matter further, to a Year's Incapacity. A Papist, that shall relapse, and fall under a Second Conviction, is only convicted over again, without any Aggravation of the Censure; which by this Bill is much heightened upon a Second Offence: So that the Penalties of this Bill are higher than any the Law has laid on Papists for assisting at the solemuest Acts of their Religion. It is true, if a Papist shall hear Mass with Five Persons more than those of his own Family, he falls under the Penalties of this Bill; but all that have been Abroad, and are acquainted with the Methods of that Religion, even where it acts in a full Freedom, know that the Practice of solitary Masses among them is so common, that no Man of that Church is in Danger of falling under any Penalty, for having any Number about him in the Acts of their Worship.

"When the First Act against Conventicles passed, which is the Foundation of a great Part of this Bill, the Fines set were Six Months Imprisonment, to be redeemable by Five Pounds for the First Offence; a Year's Imprisonment, to be redeemable by Ten Pounds, for the Second Offence; and Banishment was the Punishment for the Third Offence.

"The Lords, disliking that Severity, added a Clause for redeeming that by an Hundred Pounds, and appropriated the Fine. The Severity of these Pains did not agree with the Temper of Englishmen, and the Act was not much executed. Some Years after that, a gentler Act was made; the Fines were then set at Five Shillings and Ten Shillings for the First and Second Offence; but no Man could be fined above Ten Pounds for any Offence against that Act, except the Master of the House where the Conventicle was held, who was to be fined in Twenty Pounds.

"The Severity of this was intended to force the Dissenters to petition for the Toleration, that was then designed, and followed not long after; this Act was executed in Starling's Mayoralty with the greatest Severity, at the Time that Madam was at Dover; soon after, that Prosecution was slackened. But, after the Attempt made for the Exclusion, these Laws were again executed for some Years with great Severity, by a Popish Management; after they had set the Church against the Dissenters, then, according to their wonted Acts, they studied to set the Dissenters as much against the Church.

"When, by such Methods, we were reduced to the last Extremities, then was the late King invited to come and deliver us; and, after He had secured our Religion, our Laws, and our Liberties, He, by the Act of Toleration, which He passed, quieted those Heats that had almost consumed us.

"Whatever some may think, He will be still reckoned among the greatest of our Kings: To Him we owed a long Continuance of a flourishing Time, even during a great War; and it is to Him, that we owe the great Happiness of Her Majesty's being now on the Throne.

"The Church has no Reason to complain of the Effects of the Toleration; for, as the Numbers of those who divide from us do visibly abate all over the Nation; so the Heat and Fermentation, which was raised by those Divisions, is almost entirely laid, and we cannot but look on that as a happy Step towards the Healing of our Wounds.

"But what may we not look for under the Reign of such a Queen; whose Example, whose Virtues, and Zeal, give us Reason to hope for a happy State of Matters in the Church, if undue Severities do not again raise new Flames, and set a new Edge on Men's Spirits, which may blast these Hopes, and defeat the Success that we might otherwise expect under such an auspicious Reign!

"Before the Act of Toleration passed, while Conventicles were illegal and criminal Assemblies; yet even then a Man in Office, that was present at them, was only liable to a Fine of Ten Pounds; whereas, by this Bill, he is liable to a Fine of an Hundred Pounds for being present at them, though they have now an Impunity by Law: It does not seem so very suitable, that the same Action shall be made Ten Times more Penal after such an Impunity is granted, than it was before the passing that Law, while such Assemblies were illegal.

"This is yet more extraordinary with relation to the Churches of the Foreign Protestants, that were taken Care of even in the Act of Uniformity; so that these are legal Assemblies, not only tolerated, but allowed. Now, how unlimited soever the Legislature is as to the Qualifications necessary for all that hold any Place of Trust; yet it seems contrary to all known Rules, to lay a very heavy Penalty on any Action that is allowed by Law.

"A known Maxim, with relation to all Laws that are highly Penal, is, that the Words expressing the Crime ought to be clear, and of a determinate Sense, not liable to Constructions and Stretches; since the Greatness of the Penalty may prove an Inducement to make those Stretches, and to carry them far beyond what is intended. The Crime so Penal by this Bill is, to be in a Meeting, with Five more than the Family, under the Pretence of Religious Worship, other than according to the Liturgy and Practice of the Church of England. Now we know indeed what the Liturgy is; but it is not so easy to tell what the Importance of the Word Practice may be, or how far that may be carried; whether it is the Practice of Cathedral, or Parochial Churches; and whether Practice shall govern the Liturgy, as in the not saying the Second Service at the Altar, or christening after the Second Lesson? and whether all Family Prayer, if not by the Form of the Liturgy is not condemned; though many Books for Family Prayers have been much recommended, and commonly made Use of?

"In the Country, few Persons of Condition are so retired, as not to have often Five more than their Family within their Houses: Must these be excluded from Family Prayer, if it is not according to the Liturgy? And may not even the Liturgy Prayers, without Psalms and Lessons, be likewise included within these Words, or at least be carried to that by vexatious Informers, and be so given by easy Juries and partial Judges: It therefore seems ensnaring, and unbecoming so mild a Government as ours happily is, especially when it is in such Hands, to lay so heavy a Penalty upon an Offence so dubiously expressed.

"But, as the Penalty seems excessive, and the Words are of uncertain Signification; so the Lords do not approve of the Application of the Sums to be raised by this Bill, that they should all go to the Informer. The ancient Method was, to give them to the Crown, and to leave the encouraging Informers to the Crown; it was one of those Trusts that were lodged with the Sovereign, and so the Laws were to be executed severely or more remissly as the Public Occasions required: But, by this Bill, all is given to the Informer, One Hundred Pounds for the Offence, and Five Pounds a Day for Three Months, both which may amount to Five Hundred and Fifty Pounds.

"For, though an Oath must be made within Ten Days, yet, this not being to be done in open Court, the Party may not hear of it; and, if he knows it to be false, he may have no Regard to it, so he may let it run to the Term limited by the Bill.

This Nation has been groaning long under false Swearing, that has been in every Corner; all Sides have had their Share in it. Till God pours out another Spirit upon us, One of the chief Securities against false witnessing is, that such an Infamy follows, especially when Servants swear against their Masters, that a small matter cannot tempt even a bad Man to so base a Practice; but, if so great a Sum were to be the Reward of such Villainy, it is hard to tell where it would stop.

"A Couple of bad Servants, dismissed for ill Practices, might be tempted in Interest, as well as Revenge, to lay a probable Story, and to carry it through by bold Swearing: A great deal of this Sort was but too much practised among us Twenty Years ago; and it is to be feared that such a Bill as this would set the same Things again on Foot.

"Those who acquaint themselves with the Roman Historians, see in them what a Sort of People the Delatores were; the encouraging them, especially Servants against their Masters, was reckoned amongst the greatest Reproaches of the worst Emperors: But, though Domitian made Use of such Vermin, it is set out with great Pomp, and in very lively Expressions, as the Glory of Trajan's Reign, that he freed Rome from that Plague, and banished all those infamous Betrayers of their Masters. It is to be hoped, that a Reign, which GOD delights to Honour, shall have no such Blemish cast on it; and that no Encouragement shall be given to false Accusations and Perjury, which, the Lords apprehend; might follow, if so great a Reward were offered as this Bill proposes: They think the Reward they offer is enough to encourage honest and well-minded Men to discover what they may know; and do not think fit to lay before them Temptations, that may be too strong in so corrupt an Age.

As for this Occasional Conformity, the Lords do not go about to excuse or to defend it; but they, who have observed the Progress of those Matters, and have borne a large Share in these Controversies, must acquaint the Commons, that it is no new Practice invented to evade a Law; it has been both the Principle and Practice of some of the most eminent among the Dissenters, ever since St. Bartholomew's in the Year One Thousand Six Hundred Sixty-two; it is known that Baxter and Bates did still maintain it, and that several Books have been writ about it: And as the fiercest of the Dissenters, who intended to keep up a Wall of Partition between them and the Church, have opposed it much; so the Party of all the Dissenters that came nearest the Church, and of whom the greatest Numbers have come over to it, were those that pleaded for it. Nor is it a certain Inference, that, because a Man receives the Sacrament in the Church, he can therefore conform in every other Particular; the Office of the Communion is certainly One of the brightest and best composed of any that ever was in the Church of GOD; the little Exceptions that lay to the Posture were so fully cleared by the Rubric that is added, that it is indeed a Wonder how any Person should except to any Thing in the whole Office; but it does not necessarily follow, that therefore every Man, who is satisfied with this, should be likewise satisfied with every other Part of Conformity. There was a very learned and famous Man, that lived at Salisbury, Mr. Tombs, who was a very zealous Conformist in all Points, but in One, Infant Baptism; so that the receiving the Sacrament does not necessarily import an entire Conformity in every other Particular, no more than a Man who can subscribe to the Two first Articles of our Religion, that are indeed the main ones, and contain the Doctrine of the Trinity, and the Incarnation and Satisfaction of CHRIST, is by that concluded to assent to the Rest of the Thirty-nine; the Dissenters agree to the first, but refuse some of the last. This is likewise to be remembered, that, after Saint Bartholomew in One Thousand Six Hundred Sixty-two, Occasional Conformity was a Step that carried many much further; from Occasional Conformity, it grew to a constant Conformity, if not in the Persons themselves, yet in their Children; so the Lords now see some, descended from Occasional Conformists, espouse the Cause of the Church with much Zeal.

"For these Reasons, the Lords do conceive the Penalties in this Bill to be excessive and unreasonable.

"As to the Amendment in the Preamble:

"The Lords have Reason to insist on it; because the Words left out by them relate to another Clause, which they think ought not to stand in the Bill.

But that is not all.

"The Words left out by this Amendment contain a Proposition, which they cannot assent to as true; for, as the Law stands, every Person to be admitted to any Office, is not obliged to be conformable or receive the Sacrament: Officers of Inheritance, Forest Officers, Non-Commission Officers in the Fleet, and many others, are under no such Obligations.

"The Managers of the House of Commons themselves seem to admit the Words too general to be maintained in Strictness; and therefore they have laboured to qualify them by Construction. That is an Expedient which must be resorted to, when untrue or improper Words happen to be found in a Law already made: But, when a Law is making, it has not been usual to contend for keeping in Words which are plainly liable to Exception; especially in a Case where the Clause is unnecessary, and the Preamble sufficiently expresses the Design of the Law without it.

"The Lords insist on their Amendment, which leaves out the Words relating to the Corporation Act.

"They say, it cannot be disputed, but that the Test Act extends to all the considerable Offices and Employments in which the Security of the Government may be concerned.

"That Law was made when the Kingdom was under a just Apprehension of Danger to the Church; and the Expedient agreed upon as most likely to secure her was, the placing all the considerable Offices in the Hands of her Members; so that the Design of the Test Act is the same with that of this Bill.

"Experience has justified the Measures taken by that Law; and there has been no Complaint that it was not extensive enough as to the several Sorts of Offices.

"To encounter a Practice, which it is supposed may be made Use of to elude the true Design of the Test Act; the Commons have proposed, by this Bill, to restrain absolutely Persons in Office from going to Meetings; and the Lords agree with them, so far as relates to all Manner of Offices comprehended in the Test Act, which the Lords think is the right Measure to go by.

"All Officers which relate to Magistracy (as well within Corporations as without) are manifestly comprehended in the Test Act; and therefore the Lords have wondered to hear the Managers of the House of Commons argue, that it is of Consequence to secure the Magistracy of the Corporations in the Hands of the Churchmen; or to affirm, that, if this Amendment was agreed, Dissenters may let themselves into the Government of Corporations, since it is directly otherwise.

"The Corporation Act was made when the Kingdom was just delivered from a long Usurpation; and was principally founded on Reasons peculiar to that Time.

"Indeed nothing but so extraordinary a Juncture could have excused the placing such extravagant Powers in the Hands of the Commissioners appointed by that Act.

"Part of the Act has been repealed; and there was no great Regard had to it, at the Time when a more effectual Security was given to the Church by the Test: The Lords go not about to weaken the Force of the Corporation Act; but think it not reasonable to extend the Penalties of this Bill to the general and uncertain Words of that Law.

The Managers for the Commons say, The Words of the Test Act are as general as those of the Corporation Act: If so, we seem to be contending about nothing; since how general soever the Words of the Test Act are, the Lords have agreed they shall stand in the Bill.

"The Words in the Test Act are universally understood; no Doubt remains to what Offices and Persons it extends: It is not so as to the Corporation Act; the Uncertainty of the Words in that Law determines the Lords to think they ought not to be the Description of the Persons to whom the Bill should reach.

"They think themselves obliged to be more cautious in this Matter, because the Bill now depending does not only concern those who shall for the future come into Offices, but such as are at present possessed of them.

"In Corporations there are many Offices of a private and inferior Nature; some have been obtained by Purchase, some by long Services, and Men have attained to others in Course; some of these are Freeholds, many of them the whole Subsistance of Families, and perhaps have been enjoyed many Years under an Obedience to all such Terms as the Law now in being has prescribed: And the Lords think it hard to disturb Men in their Freeholds and Possessions by new Laws, unless the Case be such, that the Security of the Government does appear to be manifestly concerned; where that does appear, the Lords can satisfy themselves to dispense with private Considerations (as is seen by what they have agreed to in this Bill); but they cannot go further.

"The Lords look on the Penalties in this Bill, as it was framed by the House of Commons, to be very excessive, and such as bear no Proportion to the Offence; and therefore they cannot agree to them.

"The Practice of Occasional Conformity is not new; it is almost of the same Date with the Act of Uniformity; it has been a known Dispute among the Dissenters, and vindicated in Print by some of them, and practised by many of them, who had no Thoughts of Offices, and has been a Means of bringing several Persons entirely from Meetings; the Objection to this Practice by those of the Church of England has been but of late.

"The Lords do not go about to justify Men who can come so far towards uniting with the Church, and yet will stop there, any more than they do to justify any other of the Points upon which the Dissenters continue their Separation.

And since there is Reason to apprehend, that such a Liberty as this may be perverted, to the eluding the Law; the Lords have agreed to restrain it.

"They are willing to make it impossible for such Men to keep in Offices, because Hypocrites would make Use of such a Liberty; but they are not willing to ruin Persons utterly, on account of a Practice that many well-meaning Men have been, and may be, led into, and which they think tends naturally to bring them over entirely to the Church.

"The Penalty of £. 100. and £. 5. a Day, and that whole Sum given to the Informer, the Lords think a dangerous Temptation to Perjury.

"Our Law has branded Informers with the hardest Character; troublesome Persons, who grievously charge, vex, and disturb the Commons; this is the Description the Law has given of them.

"Judges must encourage these Sort of Men, according to the Terms of the Laws when made; but Legislators, when they are considering of Laws to be made, must speak of these Men as they are.

"So great a Temptation, will make the Innocent almost as insecure as the Guilty.

"Experience shewed this, in the Instances of some of the most active Informers, in prosecuting Dissenters on the Acts against Conventicles, who were convicted of Perjuries against many Persons; though there the Temptation was nothing, comparable to what it would be if these Penalies should stand.

"And though the Commons have yielded to the Lords Amendments, that Two Witnesses shall be necessary, and that the Time of Prosecution shall not be left indefinite; yet that will not be sufficient; for both those Things were provided for in the Conventicle Act.

"And though the Commons have also yielded to shorten the Time for the Prosecution; yet the Penalty may still amount to a very great Sum, for the Five Pounds a Day may go on for Three Months.

"The Punishment of a total Incapacity is the heaviest, next the Loss of Life; and yet it is to be inflicted for the First Offence.

"The Word Employment is more general than any Word the Test Act has. Such Punishment ought only to be for a Crime of the highest Nature; and yet, going to a Meeting is no Crime as the Law now stands; nor will it be a Crime in any Man who is not in Office, when the Bill is passed into a Law.

"The Lords agree to that Part of the Penalty which answers the visible Design of the Bill, by making the going to a Conventicle to be Forfeiture of Office. To go further, to ruin Mens Estates, to make them infamous (for what can be more infamous than such a Disability?), they think is to exceed all Bounds.

"The Managers for the Commons say, there are greater Penalties in other Laws; it does not appear by any Instances which have been given. These Penalties are much heavier than in most of the Laws about Religion; but if that were true, what is to be inferred from thence, if the Crimes be not the same in the Heinousness of their Natures? Justice and good Policy requires there should be some Proportion between the Offence and the Punishment.

"The Lords have quite another Consideration of the Penalties in this Bill, and those of the Test Act.

"In the present Case, an innocent Man has only a Sort of negative Proof, to defend him from false Witnesses; who may chuse to assign such a Time and Place for the Fact, as they know the Party can be least likely to defend himself.

"Whereas, in the Case of the Test Act, the Man who resolves to obey the Law, which is to subscribe the Declaration, and receive the Sacrament, has not only the Liberty to chuse his own Witnesses of his receiving the Sacrament, and the Attestation of the Minister who officiates; but the Whole is put upon Record; so that when a Man has complied with the Law, he is beyond all Possibility of suffering by a false Accusation.

"There seems to be no Occasion here to increase the Punishment upon a Second Offence; for it does not depend upon the former, as in most Cases where the Penalty is increased for the Second Offence; for, when the Office is gone, the Person is under no legal Restraint from going to Conventicles.

"If he obtains a new Office, he brings himself at the same Time under the Reach of this Law, upon a new Account; and if he offends again, he will lose that Office, besides incurring the Pecuniary Penalty.

"The Proviso which is to qualify the Incapacity is made so very hard, that it is a new Instance of the great Severity of the Bill: A Man, to set himself right again, must take more public Shame to himself, than the severest Laws against Papists require to discharge all the Penalties and Incapacities of a Popish Recusant Convict, as appears plainly, by perusing the several Acts relating to that Matter; and the Lords will always be tender of putting greater Hardships on Protestant Dissenters than Papists.

"That no Comparison ought to be made between the Penalties the Law had laid upon Papists for holding of Offices of Trust, without taking the Test and receiving the Sacrament, and the Penalties to be laid upon Occasional Conformity, for holding their Office after they have been at a Conventicle.

"This Difference of Punishment, that ought to be observed between these Two, is not upon the Account that the Errors of the one are much greater than the Errors of the other, how true soever that is, but because the one depend upon a Foreign Power, and are subject to it; so the Nation is really in Danger if such Men should hold Employments, who must be looked on as public Enemies, and as Persons who receive Directions from an Authority that we are sure is ever contriving our Ruin; but no such Danger can be apprehended from Men who have no other Strength than what they have among ourselves, which we are sure can no Way be compared to the Strength of the established Church.

"As to this Occasional Conformity; it will appear no such formidable Thing, if we consider what the Sense both of the Church of England and of the Church of Rome was of this Matter upon other Occasions.

In the Beginning of Queen Elizabeth's Reign, the Reformation and the Liturgy were put on a Foot, to bring over the whole Nation that had then a Leaven of Popery to concur in it: It had this Effect, all the Papists of England came to Church, and were Occasional Conformists; yet the Church of England was not uneasy at this; they complained of no Danger from it. But who was sensible of it? It was the Pope; and he was in the Right as to his own Interest; for he saw what in Time that Occasional Conformity would grow to; and therefore he put a Stop to it, and by a Bull condemned it.

"And indeed the Church of Rome has shewed, by the Methods of all their Missions, that they apprehend no Danger, but great Advantage, from any Step of the Occasional Conformity of Protestants.

"They accept of any Thing and encourage every Thing of that Kind; and we have all seen, by the fatal Effects of their Practice, that they are in the Right, and gain their Ends by it.

"As for the Clauses about Foreign Protestants; there is great Reason to give them all just Encouragement; for, as they have brought among us many new Manufactures, so they have carried them so far, that of late Years, we have exported to the Value of a Million of Woollen Manufactures more than was done in King Charles's Reign before they came among us; and the putting them under Apprehensions or Discouragements may be a Means to drive them to a Country where they will be sure of an entire Liberty.

The Book that goes under the Name of Mr. De Wit shews, the Dutch reckon that the Woollen Manufactures can never have such a Settlement among us as with them, because they who must work them cannot have so entire a Liberty of Conscience here as there: We have felt the happy Effects of the Liberty granted them in the last Reign; and it is to be hoped, that nothing will be done in this, to impeach that, or to raise apprehensions and Fears in the Minds of Men that are so useful to us in the most important Article of our Trade.

As to the Clause concerning Universities; we are not to consider the Danger they may be in under our present Circumstances, but what may happen in another State of Things: It is not so long since we saw what Advantages were like to be taken against those Learned Bodies, if there had been such a Law, to furnish those that were troubling them without any Reason or Pretence, with the Handle that this Bill might have given them without this Clause; and therefore, the Lords think, they are too much beholding to those great Foundations, not to take Care of them, and think themselves bound to secure them even from remote and possible Dangers; besides that the Vice Chancellor and Heads of Houses, being Men often of great Dignities and Preferments, may by a severe Prosecution be ruined, unless secured by a Clause.

"As for the Clause concerning those Societies that are engaged in taking Care of the Poor; the Nation, and this City in particular, has seen such good Effects of their Care and Industry, that it cannot seem reasonable to put any Discouragement upon them. How many poor Children do they take Care of! They are by their Means cloathed and taught, and bound out to Trades; and if some misled People join their Assistance and Charity to so great a Work, shall they be hindered from it, or punished for it, if they have been so far mistaken as to be at a Conventicle? But this Clause has no Relation to endowed Hospitals, which are under peculiar Statutes, and to which none of these People have any Access; the Law has taken Care of these, and secured them; and this Clause relates only to free and voluntary Societies for such Charities, which the Lords do not think fit to put any Restraints, or to bar any from coming into them.

"The Managers for the Commons, by Way of Reply to these Arguments urged by the Lords Managers, said,

"That several of the Lords Arguments were against the Bill.

"That the Lords had agreed to the greater Part of this Bill; and therefore should confine themselves, and speak only to their own Amendments.

"That no Time could be more seasonable for this Bill than the present; because the Church was now in no Danger of Popery, or of Fanaticism; but good Laws are to be made for Posterity, and may be obtained most easily in the best Reigns.

"That the Right of Election of Members to serve in Parliament is in those that are concerned in the Government of Corporations; and if they should, by this Bill, be turned out of their Employments, and consequently lose their Votes in the Elections; yet it cannot be said they lose their Birth-rights, because no Man is born a Magistrate.

"That the Commons Penalty bears a just Proportion to the Offence; and that all above One Hundred Pounds is for an obstinate persisting in the Crime.

"That the Offender cannot be guilty through Inadvertency; he must offend knowingly and willingly.

"That the Test Act gives Five Hundred Pounds, a much greater Penalty than that in this Act, to the Informer; besides, that Act brings the Offender under very great Disabilities.

Hitherto examined, this 24th of March, 170&frac23, by us,

Stamford.
Ric. Peterbor.
Jo. Chichester.
Jo. Bangor.

"That an innocent Man is no more secure under the Test Act, than under this Bill: The Question must be always upon his acting or not acting, which does not depend upon the Record; and a very violent Prosecution has been known within few Years against an Alderman of Worcester, a constant Conformist, only upon a Nicety, and where there has been no Fault in the Party.

"That the Trial must be by a Jury, not in a summary Way before a Justice of the Peace, as in some of our Penal Laws.

"That it was very plain, good Protestants might be affected by Prosecutions upon the Test Act.

"Then their Managers left the Bill with the Lords; and said, They hoped the Lords would not let the Public lose the Benefit of so good a Law."

Occasiocal Conformity Bill, with the Lords; Amendments, and the Report of this Conference, to be printed:

Then it was proposed, "To print this Report, and the said Bill, with the Amendments made by the Lords, and their Proceedings thereupon."

After Debate;

The Question was put, "That the Bill, intituled, An Act for preventing Occasional Conformity, and the Amendments made by the Lords to the said Bill, and their Reasons for those Amendments and the Commons Reasons and the Report of the Free Conference thereupon, shall be printed and published."

Then, after Debate,

The previous Question was put, "Whether this Debate shall be now adjourned?"

It was Resolved in the Negative.

Then the main Question was put, "That the Bill, intituled, An Act for preventing Occasional Conformity, and the Amendments made by the Lords to the said Bill, and their Reasons for those Amendments, and the Commons Reasons, and the Report of the Free Conference thereupon, shall be printed and published?"

It was Resolved in the Affirmative.

Protest against it.

"Dissentient.

C. Ossulstone.

De Longueville."

Because the Printing of Bills, and the Proceedings on Bills, was never done; and therefore is Unparliamentary.

It is an appealing to the People, and giving them a Pretence of Right to examine and Judge of the Parliament; which otherwise would be unlawful: And this Practice may be of pernicious Consequence to the Peace of the Kingdom, and highly derogatory to the Honour and Dignity of the House of Lords.

"Sandwich.
Lindsey, G. C.
Nottingham.
Denbigh.
Weymouth.
Dartmouth."

Occasional Conformity Bill, &c. to be printed.

It is ORDERED, by the Lords Spiritual and Tempoporal in Parliament assembled, That the Bill, which was not agreed to, intituled, "An Act for preventing Occasional Conformity," as it came from the House of Commons, and the Bill as amended and agreed to by the Lords, and the Commons Reasons for not agreeing to those Amendments, and the Reasons of the Lords for insisting on their Amendments, and the Report made this Day of the Free Conference upon the said Bill, shall be forthwith printed and published.

ORDERED, That the same Committee which drew up what was offered at the Free Conference had in relation to the Bill, intituled, "An Act for preventing Occasional Conformity," do meet To-morrow, at Ten a Clock, and give Directions accordingly.

Savoy Hospital Bill, rejected.

After hearing Counsel, upon the Bill, intituled, "An Act to enable Her Majesty to settle the Lands and Revenues of the late dissolved Hospital of The Savoy to such charitable and public Uses as are therein mentioned; and for making the Chapel there a Parochial Church:"

Hodie 2^a vice lecta est Billa, intituled, "An Act to enable Het Majesty to settle the Lands and Revenues of the late dissolved Hospital of The Savoy to such charitable and public Uses as are therein mentioned; and for making a Chapel there a Parochial Church."

After Debate;

The Question was put, "Whether this Bill shall be committed?"

It was Resolved in the Negative.

Then the Question was put, "Whether this Bill shall be rejected?"

It was Resolved in the Affirmative.

ORDERED, That the said Bill shall be; and is hereby, rejected.

Whitaker to be heard, against the Bill to compel him to accompt for Public Monies.

Whereas Edward Whitaker, upon his Petition, was ordered to be heard, by his Counsel, to the Bill, intituled, "An Act to oblige Edward Whitaker to accompt for all such Sums of Public Money as hath been received by him:"

It is this Day ORDERED, by the Lords Spiritual and Temporal in Parliament assembled, That the said Edward Whitaker shall be heard, by his Counsel, as desired, To-morrow, at Eleven a Clock, before the Second Reading of the said Bill; and that the original Orders and Books, which are in the Navy-office, relating to the passing Edward Whitaker's Accompts, be laid before this House, at the said Hearing, to be made Use of by the said Edw'd Whitaker.

Molloy versus Irish Forfeitures Bill.

Upon reading the Petition of Margaret and Mary Molloy; praying to be heard, to the Bill, intituled, "An Act for advancing the Sale of the Forfeited Estates in Ireland and for vesting such as remain unsold by the present Trustees in Her Majesty, Her Heirs and Successors, for such Uses as the same were before vested in the said Trustees; and for the more effectual selling and setting the said Estates to Protestants; and for explaining the several Acts relating to the Lord Bophin and Sir Redmond Everard:"

It is ORDERED, by the Lords Spiritual and Temporal in Parliament assembled, That the Petitioners shall be heard, by One Counsel, as desired, To-morrow, at Eleven a Clock; and the other Petitioners also.

Commissioners Accompts, Army, &c. Bill.

Hodie 2^a vice lecta est Billa, "An Act for reviving and continuing the late Acts, for appointing Commissioners, to take, examine, and determine, the Debts due to the Army, and for Transport Service; and also an Account of the Prizes taken during the late Wat."

ORDERED, That the said Bill be committed to a Committee of the whole House, To-morrow.

Stamp Duties to prevent Frauds in, Bill.

Hodie 2^a vice lecta est Billa, intituled, "An Act for preventing Frauds in Her Majesty's Duties upon stampt Vellum, Parchment, and Paper."

ORDERED, That the said Bill be committed to a Committee of the whole House, To-morrow.

Observations from Commissioners of Accompts, Proceedings about, to be printed.

The House being moved, "That the Report of the Proceedings from the Lords Committees, appointed to consider of the Observations of the Commissioners of Accompts, may be laid before Her Majesty, by Way of Address:"

It is ORDERED, by the Lords Spiritual and Temporal in Parliament assembled, That the Lords Committees appointed to consider of the said Observations shall meet To-morrow, at Ten a Clock in the Forenoon, to draw an Address, to be presented to Her Majesty, upon the whole Report from the said Committee, and their Proceedings on the said Observations; and report to the House; and that the whole Proceedings in this Case shall be printed and published.

Adjourn.

Dominus Custos Magni Sigilli declaravit præsens Parliamentum continuandum esse usque ad et in diem Jovis, vicesimum quintum diem instantis Februarii, hora undecima Auroræ, Dominis sic decernentibus.