House of Lords Journal Volume 10: 17 October 1648

DIE Martis, 17 die Octobris.

PRAYERS, by Mr. Salwey.

Domini præsentes fuerunt:

Letter, &c. from the Commissioners with the King.

A Letter from the Commissioners in the Isle of Wight, with Nine Papers concerning the Treaty with the King, read. (Here enter them.)

Message from the H. C. that they intend to adjourn for some Days.

A Message was brought from the House of Commons, by Sir Thomas Dacres Knight, &c.

To let their Lordships know, that the House of Commons have resolved to adjourn their House, when they rise, until Monday.

Cresheld to be a Judge of the C. P.

Resolved, upon the Question, That Mr. Serjeant Cresheld be appointed One of the Justices of the Common Pleas.

Message to the H. C. to remind them of Baron Atkins; for Sir W. Parsons to be Chancellor of Ireland; for Serjeant Turner to be preferred; and with Toll's Ordinance.

A Message was sent to the House of Commons, by Doctor Aylett and Mr. Hakewill:

To put them in Mind of the Ordinance formerly sent down, for making Baron Atkins, One of the Judges in the Court of Common Pleas, in the Place of Mr. Justice Godbold, lately deceased.

2. To desire their Concurrence in the Vote for making Sir Wm. Parsons Chancellor of Ireland.

3. To desire Concurrence in the Ordinance for making Thomas Toll Comptroller of the Customs at Lynn.

4. To put them in Mind of Mr. Serjeant Turner (fn. 1) being taken into Consideration, for some Preferment.

Message to them, for a Conference about their Adjournment.

A Message was sent to the House of Commons, by Mr. Serjeant Finch and Mr. Doctor Heath:

To desire a Conference, touching the Matter of their last Message.

Message from thence, with an Ordinance.

A Message was brought from the House of Commons, by Sir Christopher Yelverton Baronet; who brought up an Ordinance for making Serjeant Cresheld One of the Justices of the Court of Common Pleas, wherein their Lordships Concurrence is desired. (Here enter it.)

Read Thrice, and Agreed to.

The Answer returned was:

Answer.

That this House agrees to the Ordinance now brought up.

Heads for the Conference about the H. C. adjourning for some Days.

The Matter of the Conference is to be (fn. 2) to this Effect: "That in regard the great Concernment the Treaty is of, and that if Sundays be included in the Number of the Forty Days allotted for the Treaty, if the Houses should adjourn until Monday, there will be but Three or Four Days remaining for the Treaties; therefore to move the House of Commons, that they would not adjourn, but sit this Week, in regard there may be many Occasions for the Commissioners to send to the Houses for Directions."

Message from the H. C. with an Ordinance; and to remind the Lords of Husbands's.

A Message was brought from the House of Commons, by Mr. Vassall, &c.; who brought up an Ordinance concerning French Merchants, and desire Concurrence therein.

2. To put them in Mind of the Ordinance concerning Mr. Husbands.

Respited.

The Answer returned was:

Answer.

That this House will take this Message into Consideration, and return an Answer by Messengers of their own.

James and Halke.

Ordered, That the Business of John Halke, Minister of Upminister, in the County of Essex, is dismissed this House, for so much as concerns Mr. Marmaduke James, Minister.

Ordered, That the Petition and Certificates of John Halke Minister be sent to the House of Commons; and desire that they would examine why the said John Halke was put out of his Living; and that they would right him, if it appears to them that he hath been wrongfully put out.

Smyth and Davies.

Ordered, That the Errors in the Writ of Error between Solomon Smyth and Davies shall be argued, by Counsel on both Sides, the 20th of November next.

Sir G. Garrett and Mrs. Garrett.

Upon reading the Answer of Sir George Garrett; shewing, "That the Complaint of Theodosia Garrett is depending in the Court of the Lord Mayor of London; therefore desires to be dismissed this House:"

It is Ordered, That the said Theodosia Garrett may reply to this Answer; and that there be a Certificate from the Officer of the Lord Mayor's Court, whether this Cause be there depending.

Sir W. Button's Composition.

Upon reading the Petition of Sir Wm. Button; (fn. 3) desiring, "to be heard, before his Ordinance of Composition pass this House; and that he may have a Review at Goldsmythes Hall:"

It is Ordered, That it be recommended to the Commissioners at Goldsmythes Hall, that he may either have a Review, if they think fit; or, in case that cannot be, that the Three Hundred Pounds taken by Seizure by the Committee of Wilts may be allowed as Part of his Fine, and then he (fn. 4) will pay the full Remainder of his Fine imposed.

Barley, and Inhabitants of Long Acre.

(fn. 5) That the Business touching Barley, for erecting a new Brewhouse in Longe Acre, shall be heard, this Day Month, by Counsel on both Sides.

Answers from the H. C.

Doctor Aylett and Mr. Hakewill return with this Answer from the House of Commons:

That they will send an Answer to all, by Messengers of their own.

Mr. Serjeant Finch and Mr. Doctor Heath return with this Answer from the House of Commons:

That they will give a present Conference, as is desired.

The Lords went to the Conference; and the House was adjourned during Pleasure.

The House was resumed.

Letter from the Commissioners with the King, with the following Papers about the Treaty.

"For the Right Honourable Edward Earl of Manchester, Speaker of the House of Peers, pro Tempòre. These.

"My Lord,

"We herewith present your Lordship with an Account of our Proceedings upon the Propositions concerning Public Debts and Peers, &c.; and for the Particulars, we refer to the Papers inclosed. We delivered Yesternight a Paper upon the Proposition concerning Delinquents, herewith also sent; and so we remain

Newport, the 14th October, 1648.

"Your Lordship's humble Servants,

"A. Northumberland,
Middlesex,
W. Say & Seale."

"Newport, 11 Octobr. 1648.

** The Commissioners Paper upon the Proposition, touching Payment of Public Debts, &c.

"We humbly desire that Your Majesty will give Your Royal Assent to such Act or Acts, for raising of Monies, for the Payment and Satisfying of Public Debts and Damages of the Kingdom, and other Public Uses, as shall hereafter be agreed on by both Houses of Parliament; and that if the King do not give His Assent thereunto, that, it being done by both Houses of Parliament, the same shall be as valid to all Intents and Purposes as if the Royal Assent had been given thereunto.

"Ex'r,

** His Majesty's First Answer to the Proposition concerning Public Debts.

"CHARLES R.

"In Answer to your Proposition of the 11th of October, concerning Public Debts, &c.

"His Majesty doth consent to your Proposition, as is desired; the Act or Acts extending only to Debts and Damages, and Public Uses incurred and passed, and to be agreed by both Houses within Twelve Months.

"Newport, the 12th of October, 1648."

** The Commissioners Reply to the King's First Answer to the Proposition touching Public Debts.

"Newport the 12th, 1648.

"Whereas, by our Paper of the 11th of October, it is humbly desired, Your Majesty will give Your Assent to such Act or Acts, for raising Monies, for the Payment of Public Debts and Damages of the Kingdom, and other Public Uses, as shall hereafter be agreed on by both Houses of Parliament; and that, if the Royal Assent be not thereto given, yet, being done by the Houses, it shall be as valid to all Intents and Purposes: Your Majesty, in Your Answer now given to it, is pleased to limit Your Consent, only for such Debts and Damages and Public Uses as are already incurred and past, and they to be agreed upon by the Houses within Twelve Months; which comes short of the Desire of the Two Houses, that looks to the future as well as the Time past: And You are likewise pleased to restrain it to Twelve Months, for their agreeing upon those Debts, Damages, and Public Uses. We therefore humbly crave Your Answer to the foresaid Paper, as it is there desired.

"Ex'r, vera Copia,

** The King's final Answer to the Proposition touching Debts, &c.

"CHARLES R.

"For a final Answer to you, as to your Proposition of the 11th of October, concerning Public Debts, &c. and to your Paper of the 12th, concerning the same;

"His Majesty doth consent to your Proposition, as is desired, so as the Act or Acts be agreed on and presented within the Space of Two Years, and extend only to Debts, Damages, and Public Uses, incurred by that Time.

"Newport, the 12th of October, 1648.

"Ex'r,

** The Commissioners Paper upon Receipt of the King's final Answer to the Proposition touching Public Debts.

"Newport, the 12th of October, 1648.

"Having received Your Majesty's final Answer to our Papers of the 11th and 12th of October Instant, concerning the Payment of Public Debts, &c. we shall transmit the same to both Houses of Parliament; and go on with the Treaty, according to our Instructions.

"Ex.

** The Commissioners Paper upon the Proposition concerning Peers, &c.

"Newport, the 12th of October, 1648.

"We do humbly desire Your Majesty's Consent to the Proposition ensuing: That, by Act of Parliament, all Peers made since the Day that Edward Lord Littleton, then Lord Keeper of the Great Seal, deserted the Parliament, and that the said Great Seal was surreptitiously conveyed away from the Parliament, being the 21th Day of May, 1642, and who shall be hereafter made, shall not sit or vote in the Parliament of England, without Consent of both Houses of Parliament; and that all Honour and Title conferred on any without Consent of both Houses of Parliament, since the 20th of May, 1642, being the Day that both Houses declared, "That the King, seduced by evil Counsel, intended to raise War against the Parliament," be declared null and void.

"Ex'r,

** His Majesty's Answer to the Proposition concerning Peers, &c.

"CHARLES R.

"In Answer to your Proposition of the 12th of October, concerning Peers, &c.

"His Majesty doth consent thereunto, as is desired.

"Newport, 13 Octobr. 1648.

"Ex.

** The Commissioners Paper upon the King's Answer to the Proposition concerning Peers, &c.

"Newport, the 13th of October, 1648.

"Having received Your Majesty's Paper of the 13th Instant, in Answer to the Proposition presented to Your Majesty in our Paper of the 12th, concerning Peers, &c. whereunto Your Majesty is pleased to declare, "That You do consent thereunto as is desired;" we shall transmit the same to both Houses of Parliament; and go on in the Treaty, according to our Instructions.

"Ex'r,

"Newport, the of October, 1648.

"We humbly desire Your Majesty to give Your Royal Assent to the Proposition ensuing, concerning Delinquents.

"That an Act be passed concerning Delinquents, as followeth:

"First Branch,

"That who shall expect no Pardon be only these following:

"And all Papists and Popish Recusants, who have been, now are, or shall be, actually in Arms, or voluntarily assisting, against the Parliament of England; and by Name,

"And all Persons who have had any Hand in the plotting, designing, or assisting, the Rebellion of Ireland, except such Persons who have only assisted the said Rebellion, have rendered themselves, or come in to the Parliament of England.

"Second Branch,

"Be removed from His Majesty's Councils, and be restrained from coming within the Verge of the Court; and that they may not, without the Advice and Consent of both Houses of Parliament of England, bear any Office, or have any Employment, concerning the State or Commonwealth; and in case any of them shall offend therein, to be guilty of High Treason, and incapable of any Pardon from His Majesty, and their Estates to be disposed of as both Houses of the Parliament of England shall think fit; and that One full Third Part, upon Value, of the Estates of the Persons aforesaid, made incapable of Employment as aforesaid, be employed for the Payment of Public Debts and Damages; and that the late Members, or any who pretend themselves late Members, of either House of Parliament, who have not only deserted the Parliament, but have also sat in the unlawful Assembly at Oxford, called or pretended by some to be a Parliament, and voted the Kingdom of England Traitors, and have not voluntarily rendered themselves before the last of October, 1644, be removed from His Majesty's Councils, and be restrained from coming within the Verge of the Court; and that they may not, without Advice and Consent of the Kingdom of England, bear any Office, or have any Employment, concerning the State or Commonwealth: And in case any of them shall offend therein, to be guilty of High Treason, and incapable of any Pardon by His Majesty; and their Estates to be disposed as both Houses of Parliament in England shall think fit.

"And that the late Members, or any who pretended themselves Members, of either House of Parliament, who have sat in the unlawful Assembly at Oxford, called or pretended by some to be a Parliament, and have not voluntarily rendered themselves before the last of October, 1644, be removed from His Majesty's Councils, and restrained from coming within the Verge of the Court; and that they may not, without the Advice and Consent of both Houses of Parliament, bear any Office, or have any Employment, concerning the State or Commonwealth; and in case any of them shall offend therein, to be guilty of High Treason, and incapable of any Pardon from His Majesty; and their Estates to be disposed as both Houses of the Parliament of England shall think fit.

"And that the late Members, or any who pretend themselves Members, of either House of Parliament, who have deserted the Parliament, and adhered to the Enemies thereof, and have not rendered themselves before the last of October, 1644, be removed from His Majesty's Councils, and be restrained from coming within the Verge of the Court; and that they may not, without the Advice and Consent of both Houses of Parliament, bear any Office, or have any Employment, concerning the State or Commonwealth: And in case any of them shall offend therein, to be guilty of High Treason, and incapable of any Pardon from His Majesty; and their Estates to be disposed as both Houses of Parliament shall think fit.

"And that all Judges and Officers towards the Law, Common or Civil, who have deserted the Parliament, and adhered to the Enemies thereof, be incapable of any Place of Judicature or Office towards the Law, Common or Civil; and that all Serjeants, Counsellors, and Attornies, Doctors, Advocates, and Proctors of the Law, Common or Civil, who have deserted the Parliament, and adhered to the Enemies thereof, be incapable of any Practice in the Law, Common or Civil, either in Public or Private; and shall not be capable of any Preferment or Employment in the Commonwealth, without the Advice and Consent of both Houses of Parliament; and that no Bishop or Clergyman, no Master or Fellow of any College or Hall in either of the Universities, or elsewhere, or any Master of School or Hospital, or any Ecclesiastical Person, who hath deserted the Parliament, and adhered to the Enemies thereof, shall hold or enjoy, or be capable of, any Preferment or Employment in Church or Commonwealth: But all their said several Preferments, Places, and Promotions, shall be utterly void, as if they were naturally dead; nor shall they otherwise use their Function of the Ministry, without the Advice and Consent of both Houses of Parliament: Provided, That no Lapse shall incur by such Vacancy until Six Months past after Notice thereof.

"The Third Branch,

"That all Persons who have been actually in Arms against the Parliament, or have counselled or voluntarily assisted the Enemies thereof, are disabled to be Sheriffs, Justices of Peace, Mayors, and other Head Officers, of any City or Corporation, Commissioners of Oyer and Terminer, or to sit or serve as Members or Assistants in either Houses of Parliament, or to have any Military Employment in the Kingdom, without the Consent of both Houses of Parliament.

"Fourth Branch,

"The Persons of all others to be free of all Personal Censure, notwithstanding any Act or Thing done in or concerning this War; they taking the Covenant.

"Fifth Branch,

"The Estates of those Persons excepted in the First Branch, and the Estates of Edward Lord Littleton, and of Wm. Laud late Archbishop of Canterbury, to pay Public Debts and Damages.

"Sixth Branch,

"That Two full Parts in Three to be divided of all the Estates of such late Members of either House of Parliament, who have not only deserted the Parliament, but have also voted the Kingdom of England Traitors, and have not rendered themselves before the First of December, 1645, shall be taken and employed for the Payment of Public Debts and Damages of the Kingdom.

"And that Two full Parts in Three to be divided of the Estates of such late Members of either House of Parliament as sat in the unlawful Assembly at Oxford, and shall not have rendered themselves before the First of December, 1645, shall be taken and employed for the Payment of the Public Debts and Damages of the Kingdom.

"And that One full Moiety of the Estates of such Persons, late Members of either the Houses of Parliament, who have deserted the Parliament, aud adhered to the Enemies thereof, and shall not have rendered themselves before the First of December, 1645, shall be taken and employed for the Payment of the Public Debts and Damages of the Kingdom.

"That a full Third Part of the Value of the Estates of all Judges and Officers towards the Law, Common or Civil, and of all Serjeants, Counsellors, and Attornies, Doctors, Advocates, and Proctors of the Law, Common or Civil, and of all Bishops and Clergymen, and Fellows of any College or Hall in either Universities, or elsewhere, and of all Masters of Schools or Hospitals, and all Ecclesiastical Persons, who have deserted the Parliament, and adhered to the Enemies thereof, and have not rendered themselves to the Parliament before the 1 of December, 1645, shall be taken and employed for the Payment of the Public Debts and Damages of the Kingdom.

"And that a full Sixth Part on the full Value of the Estates of the Persons excepted in the Third Branch, concerning such as have been actually in Arms against the Parliament, or have counselled or voluntarily assisted the Enemies thereof, and are disabled according to the said Branch, be taken and employed for the Payment of the Public Debts and Damages of the Kingdom.

"Seventh Branch,

"That the Persons and Estates of all Common Soldiers and others of this Kingdom of England, who in Lands and Goods be not worth Two Hundred Pounds Sterling, be at Liberty and discharged.

"Eighth Branch,

"That the First of May last is now the Day limited for the Persons to come in, that are comprized within the former Branch; provided that all and every of the Delinquents, which, by or according to the several and respective Ordinances or Orders made by both or either of the Houses of the Parliament, on or before the 24th Day of April, 1647, are to be admitted to make their Fines and Compositions under the Rates and Proportions of the Branch aforesaid, shall, according to the said Ordinances and Orders respectively, be thereunto admitted; and further also, that no Person or Persons whatsoever (except such Papists as, having been in Arms, or voluntarily assisted against the Parliament, have, by concealing their Quality, procured their Admission to Composition) which have already compounded, or shall hereafter compound, and be thereunto admitted by both Houses of Parliament, at any of the Rates and Proportions aforesaid, or under, respectively, shall be put to pay any other Fine, than they have or shall respectively so compound for (except for such Estates, or such of their Estates, and for such Values thereof respectively, as have been, or shall be, concealed or omitted in the Particulars whereupon they compound); and that all and every of them shall have thereupon their Pardons, in such Manner and Form as is agreed by both Houses of Parliament.

"And that an Act be passed, whereby the Debts of the Kingdom, and the Persons of Delinquents, and the Value of their Estates, may be known; and which Act shall appoint in what Manner the Confiscations and Proportions before mentioned may be levied, and applied to the Discharge of the said Engagements.

"Ex'r, Copia vera,

Serjeant Cresheld to be One of the Justices of the Common Pleas.

"Be it Ordained, by the Lords and Commons in Parliament assembled, That Richard Cresheld, Serjeant at Law, be One of the Justices of the Common Pleas; and that the Clerk of the Crown in the Chancery do prepare a Commission, for the constituting and appointing the said Richard Cresheld to be One of the Justices of the said Court of Common Pleas (quamdiù se bene gesserit); and that the Commissioners of the Great Seal are hereby authorized and required to pass the same under the Great Seal of England, and to give him the Oath of a Judge accordingly."

Adjourn.

House adjourned till 10^a cras.