Henry VIII: January 1530, 21-25 | British History Online

Letters and Papers, Foreign and Domestic, Henry VIII, Volume 4, 1524-1530. Originally published by Her Majesty's Stationery Office, London, 1875.

Citation:

'Henry VIII: January 1530, 21-25', in Letters and Papers, Foreign and Domestic, Henry VIII, Volume 4, 1524-1530, ed. J S Brewer( London, 1875), British History Online https://prod.british-history.ac.uk/letters-papers-hen8/vol4/pp2748-2754 [accessed 16 November 2024].

January 1530



21 Jan. R, O. Rym. XIV. 354.	6155. COMMISSION TO TREAT.
	Commission to Thomas earl of Wiltshire, John Stokesley, Edward Lee, and William Benet, to treat with the Pope, the Emperor, the kings of France, Hungary, Portugal, Poland, Denmark and Scotland, the doge of Venice, and the dukes of Milan and Ferrara, for a general peace, and for resisting the Turk. London, 21 Jan. 1529. Signed and sealed.
	Lat., vellum.
R. O.	2. Commission to the same to treat with the ambassadors of the Emperor. London, 21 Jan. 1529. Signed and sealed.
R. O.	3. Protocol of conditions for the negociations for peace between the ambassadors of the Emperor, France and England.
	1. Each ambassador shall be bound to obtain passports for the other's couriers. 2. No ambassador shall allow his courier to carry any letters but his own, or to write anything to his prince, prejudicial to another power, or likely to exasperate the war. 3. These conditions the Pope enjoins under pain of excommunication.
	Lat., pp. 2.
22 Jan. Vit. B. XIII. 26. B. M.	6156. RICHARD CROKE to [GHINUCCI].
	Met yesterday Hieronymus Aleander and the prothonotary [Casale]. Wished to know what the latter had done for him in opening the libraries, and whether the former had written, as he promised, to the librarians at Rome, and whether he would conduct or follow Croke to the house of the bishop of Chieti, as had been agreed between them. Found him very cool, pleading want of time and ill-health as an excuse. During their conversation he told Croke that the prothonotary had questioned him closely as to what Croke had said to him, and whether he mentioned the King's marriage. Does not know the prothonotary's motive, but can divine it; for when Croke asked him what he had done, found that he had neither done nor attempted anything. He answered, indeed, that he would take care that tomorrow or the day after the catalogues of the libraries should be shown to him, and he desired Croke to give him the names of the books which he most wished to see. Did this on Wednesday and today. When Croke asked him to treat secretly with Aleander for him, concealing what he had heard from Aleander, he, betraying himself either from a sense of guilt or carelessness, said that Aleander had discovered that Croke was sent by the King. Denied this stedfastly; and he then said that Aleander had found it out from the questions which Croke put to him. Leaves it to him to consider what is the faithfulness or diligence of these brothers (fn. 1) for the King. Fears that as they have never seen Gregory, they will never show it to him, lest his diligence should disclose to the King their negligence.
	Two Minorite doctors have subscribed the writings of Father Francis; and, if his correspondent thinks needful, all the Observant preachers will do the same. Their Order is of the greatest influence in England, and they have greatly opposed the King's cause there.
	Visited Aleander, who angrily denied having said what the prothonotary spoke of, and said he should immediately send his secretary to him to expostulate. Persuaded him not to do so, and asked him to write in his favor if the prothonotary wrote anything of the sort to the ambassadors. He hesitated, saying that Italian quarrels finished with the sword, and he was afraid of writing against them, as they were great personages; but if Croke would tell the bishop of Worcester, or one of the other ambassadors, to question him, he would speak the truth.
	Does not wish this communicated to any one, nor any expostulations to be made with the Cassalis, lest they injure or hinder him.—Venice, Jan. 21. "Exemplar mearum ad Prothonotarium misi ut videas quemadmodum ... Vulpizen, in cujus literis non admiscuissem regis nomen ... segnitiem cui necesse esse ut hic ... fidam ipse dixi ... Sanctum Marcum et in ipsa biblioth[eca] * * * Græcorum plenam quandam invenimus," containing many works of the orators,—among others, Philo, Chrysostom and Dionysius. Has also found a very large Greek volume of epistles; but the author's name is lost, and they are not certain whether they are those of Basil or Nazianzen. Thinks they are the former, for some are to monks. Victor Faustus has not been found. Begs him to procure him money.
	Saw yesterday the library of St. Mark, by help of Father Francis, and will be shown the catalogue today. If Croke wants any books, Father Francis will cause his nephew to give surety for him. He will also obtain for him a sight of the catalogue of St. Antony's, and has induced the bishop of Chieti to lend him the Rhapsody of Commentaries upon the Gospels. Has heard nothing as yet (22 Jan. at night) of the English ambassadors. Desires him to thank Father Francis, and to appoint some one to whom Croke can give the writings of the theologians. Wants the dispensation, for without it he cannot do what he is doing with a clear conscience, and is obliged to omit Stephen's business. Asks what reward he is to give. Mark Raphael, a learned Jew, has written most plainly on our side, and offers to defend his writings, which are in Hebrew, and have been translated by Father Francis.
	Draft, pp. 2, Lat.
22 [Jan.] Vit. B. XIII. 17. B. M.	6157. [GHINUCCI to HENRY VIII.]
	"Scripsi ad majestatem vestram quod dederamus punc[ta omni]bus in jure [h]ic conductis, ut videlicet scriberent super qu [œstio]ne de qua agitur, utrum esset de jure divino. Postea responde[runt] de jure divino, et quod super hoc scribe[re]nt judicium seu con[silium qua]ndocumque voluerimus; sed ex quo punctus iste videtur parum habe[re diffi]cultatis, visum fuit expectare a majestate vestra inter[ea an] velit super aliis illos scribere, quia si nunc scribatur [de hoc] puncto nulla posset postea haberi. Ratio pecuniarum eis data [est ut] super aliis scripturi essent; quare statuimus expectare volun[tatem ma]jestatis vestrœ, presertim cum, ex eo quod non missus est hu[c cursor] ut dictum fuerat, dubitamus an majestas vestravelit per [postam] res scribi, quod dubium nobis auxit dominus Paulus du ... t mihi relatum est majestatem vestram nolle causam ... canonum sed via theologyœ terminari. Unus ex his doctoribu[s vir magnœ] famœ dixit quod prœter dictum punctum ei datum cogitat nonnul[la] ad propositum et favorem majestati[s] vestrœ, quœ tamen non dec ... dominus Benet, qui cum eo et aliis egit propterea quod ego non habebam ... notitiam, et ipse dominus Benet fuerat eorum scolaris dixit ... nullis conjecturis credere eum ad hoc tendere un ... in dispensatione quam vidit expressam * * *
	... minnuisse non sperare posse absolute defendi quod Papa contra jus [divi]num non possit ex causa dispensare. Ego curavi ut tam isti quam ... [a]liis doctoribus diceretur, quod ego etiam uni ex eis dixi, quod si ... lia eis ultra punctum datum in favorem majestatis vestrœ succurrerent prout nobis communicarent quam aliquid scriberent ad quod pre ... a ea quœ supradixi. Induxit etiam me consideratio brevis de quo agetur. [Do]ctores hic conducti fuerunt interrogati an si voluerimus facient eorum consilia approbari per universitatem, et responderunt quod sic, [dummo]do consilia contineant veritatem; sed ego dubito quod non posset hoc tute tentari, quia dicunt iste (isti) hœc fieri debere per manus prioris universitatis. Prior autem est nunc Q²⁶, et durat officium per sex menses; nihil tentabitur de hoc sine mandato majestatis vestrœ [a] doctoribus Paduœ; expectamus brevi responsum a domino Prothonotario [cui] dum dubitaremus ne Papa tentaret ut pro defensione sui brevis scri[be]rent fuit datum in conmissis ut super supradicto puncto eos scrib[ere fa]ceret, videlicet quod prohibitio de qua agitur est de jure divino. [An]dreas scribit ad me invenisse fratrem cujusdam theologi quem sibi ... ta dederam promississe ei curare ut frater pro majestate vestra scri[beret]. Frater ad fratrem qui erat absens scribserat et indies e ... s amicus meus qui est in dominio Venetorum (?) scribit ad me * * * quod sperat obtinere a quodam Hebrœo docto ut scri[bet in causa] majestatis vestrœ. Cito habebitur de utroque certitu[dinem]. Ille Sanctes qui est Lugduni fecit mihi significari misis[se lib]rum quem scripsit in causa majestatis vestrœ quem adhu[c non recepi,] sed expecto eum de die in diem. Ex civitate Lucense ... m mihi est appulisse. Cupio scire a majestate vestra ... de ipso libro facere posquam ipsum habuero. Vigesima se[cunda] ..."
	Cipher, undeciphered. Mutilated. Add.: Seren ...
24 Jan. Vit. B. XIII. 15. B. M.	6158. [GHINUCCI, BISHOP OF WORCESTER, to HENRY VIII.]
	"A xv. diebus vel c[irciter] congregati sunt simul R. D. card. Farnesius, Anconitanus ... et Cancellarius Cæsaris; et in principio dictum fuit quod cong[regabantur] ob res Turcarum, ut tractaretur de modo offendendi Turca[m et] ab eo se defendendi. Postea divulgatum est quod congregabant se [causa] majestatis vestræ; et unus vir gravis dixit mihi quod intendunt ... mittere aliquem prælatum cum aliquibus theologis ad discutiend[um vestram] causam; et quoad prælatum, quod quærunt mittere D. Episcopum Veron[ensem. Dicunt] etiam aliqui R. D. Card. Campeggium tractare de causa majestatis [vestræ, et] sæpe facit se portari ad Papam et aliquando fuit cum Cæsare. [Non] possum super his magis certe scribere ad majestatem vest[ram] ... et sui cavent a me tanquam a servo majestatis vestrœ; ali[quid] certi videtur posse haberi, nisi forte ab aliis majesta[tis vestrœ] oratoribus, quos tamen pro majori parte puto hœc nescire, ... a me petierunt an hœc scirem, sed bene posset es[se quod unus] ex eis hœc et alia sciat, et putans forsam in hoc melius sar[vire majesta] ti vestrœ cavet a me. Spero autem quod majestas vestra omnia [intelli]get; quod si sic, et fideliter prout credat, dum est veritas, ad [majestatem] vestram scribatur, bene erit. Audio a fidedigno quod [Cardinalis] Anconitanus cum ausilio cujusdam fratris foe ... [Au]gustiniani et cujusdam doctoris cano[nici] * * * ... lorum no[n] minus [s]cribit in causa majestatis vestrœ ulterius cio. [Bene spero quod majestas vestra particularius de hoc advisabi[tur] quia hœc non latent omnes alios prou[œ] me,] (fn. 2) aliquis dixit mihi quod sc[ri]bit in justificatione illius brevis quod portavit isthuc domi[nus] Paulus. Credo quod dominus Benet scribet de hac re ad majestatem vestram [pa]rticularius et certius. Vigesima quarta Januarii."
	Cipher, undeciphered. Mutilated.
24 Jan. Vit. B. XIII. 43. B. M.	6159. [GHINUCCI to CROKE.]
	Has received his letters of the 18th, with letters to [Croke's] brother, [which] he hopes to send to him tomorrow. Cannot fully answer his letter, as he has no safe messenger. Does not send letters to him for Aleander, the bishop of Chieti, nor the bishop of Verona. He will know why from his next letters. It is possible that Aleander has writings in Apulia, where he has a bishopric, (fn. 3) and where he has stayed for no small time. Will take care that nothing is untried, as far as he can; but the merchant refuses to pay. No provision nor letters yet appear. In answer to his request for counsel, advises him not to depart while there is any chance of assisting Stephen, for there is not as much hope at Rome as we thought.
	Does not think there is much hope from the persons whom he mentions, except friar Francis. Does not advise him to use the words suggested by Stephen, to be used to any one favorably inclined, and does not think his name should be discovered otherwise than it is already. Will explain the reasons more fully in another letter, and will perhaps send some person to him. He must not communicate what he does to any one, however trustworthy; for any one might injure him by chance, or a slip of the tongue, without malice. "In præteritum nisi quod rogavi v ... quod haberes aditum ad bibliothecam, nam hactenus non potueras h[abere] ... plus dixi, sed forsan aliqua arte aliter dictum est tibi ... mercatorum quinquaginta areorum (aureorum) pro nunc spe ... provisio quam expecto et tunc abundant ... veniat non deero in providendo, etiam si necesse fuerit me equos [meos vende]re."
	Wishes him to stop there while he can assist Stephen. Touching the dispensation for you and Foxe, Sir Gregory says that it was refused for eating flesh. Tried, himself, and was similarly refused. Has reminded Sir Gregory many times that he had said that the recital of the hours had been promised to him, and he always promised that he would do it. Has not yet got it, and dares not solicit it without him, lest he make the matter more difficult. Never saw any affair begun by him brought to a good end without him. Have sent your [Croke's] letters to Foxe, and written for provision for your diets, which may be expected soon. Will write to those brothers, as you wish, and will observe the rule of which you wrote. Is soliciting the penitentiary for him. Bologna, 24 Jan. 1530.
	"Tuus frater notus."
	"Receptæ, 4 die Februarii."
	P.S.—Sends a schedule in the name of "your" servant, on account of what he said about his name. Does not know the titles of those to whom he wishes him to write, and sends the letters without superscription and open.
	Lat., pp. 2. Copy by Croke. Mutilated.
24 Jan.§ Vit. B. XIII. 42 b. B. M.	6160. GHINUCCI to [ALEANDER.] (fn. 4)
	Thanks him for his kind reception of his friend, John of Flanders (Croke). Feels an affection for him in consequence of his rare virtues, and will consider as done to himself any kindness to him.
	Asks him to assist John of Flanders in obtaining access to libraries there, especially the public one. It will be difficult for him as a stranger to obtain an entrance. Bologna, 24 [Jan.] (fn. 5) 1530.
	Lat., p. 1. Copy. In the hand of Croke.
24 Jan. Vit. B. XIII. 7 b. B. M.	6161. [RICHARD CROKE to HENRY VIII.]
	The bishop of Worcester (Ghinucci) has been treating with a learned theologian through his friends, and expects his writings daily. It is not advisable to attempt anything here in the King's cause while the Pope and Emperor are present. At their departure he will treat with the Jews, as Stoxley advised, and also with the theologians, whose favorable opinion he does not despair of gaining, as they are all Thomists. He will be careful not to show his connexion with Croke, and does not wish Croke to live with him either here or at Rome. He desires him, however, to dwell in his house at Rome during the Pope's absence, and here has provided him a house near his own. He advises him, to prevent suspicion, not to go straight to Rome, but to Padua first, to examine the opinion of the theologians there, and also the libraries at Venice. When at Rome will try to obtain the place of penitentiary, which will give him access to all libraries, as being the Pope's official, not the King's.
	To show Stoxley's diligence, sends the King his instructions as to the writings which Croke must look through. Will consult the Jews there and at Padua. Complains of his poverty. His daily expences amount to three ducats, and at Rome everything is thrice as dear.
	The bishop of Worcester advises him to live alone at Rome. Bologna, 9 cal. Feb.
	Lat., Draft, mutilated, p. 1.
24 Jan. Dr. Lamb's Cambridge Documents, 14.	6162. EDW. FOX, [Provost of King's Coll. Camb.,] to [DR. BUCKMASTER,] the Vice-chancellor.
	In consequence of complaints of the shameful contentions in sermons between Mr. Latymer and certain of St. John's College, the King intends to set some order therein, not greatly to the worship of the Vice-chancellor and the other heads of the University. Asks him to appease these contentions, so that no more complaints may be made. Probably those of St. John's are actuated by private malice toward Latymer, and animated by their master, Mr. Watson, and other friends of the bishop of Rochester. It is reported to the King that this malice is expressed because Latymer favors his cause. On the contrary, Latymer, perhaps, is more vehement than becomes the very evangelist of Christ, and purposely speaks paradoxes to offend and slander people; which Foxe thinks is not wise at the present time, nor like a good evangelist. Advises him to command both to silence until the King's pleasure is known, or some other way is found to reduce them to concordance. Remits the method to his and Mr. Edmonde's wisdom. London, 24 Jan.
24 Jan. P. S.	6163. For SIR THOMAS BOLEYN, EARL OF WILTSHIRE.
	To be keeper of the Privy Seal, with 20s. a day, out of the following customs,—in the port of Pole, 80l., the petty customs in the port of London 200l., in the port of Bristol, 56l. 13s. 4d., and in the port of Brygewater, 18l. 6s. 8d.; vice Cuthbert bishop of London. York Place, 20 Jan. 21 Hen. VIII. Del. Westm., 24 Jan.
	Pat. 21 Hen. VIII. p. 1, m. 4.
	2. Wardship of Robt., kinsman and heir of Edward Knyvett; with custody of the possessions of the said Edward during the minority of Robt. York Place, 20 Jan. 21 Hen. VIII. Del. Westm., 24 Jan.
	Pat. 21 Hen. VIII. p. 2, m. 23.
25 Jan. R. O.	6164. SIR MARMADUKE CONSTABLE to WOLSEY.
	Perceives from Mr. Joachym and other friends, that within eight days they expect to hear of the arrival of the French king's children and Madame Eleanor, whose baggage is already arrived at Bion. Then they think that the seal of the university of Paris and the other universities shall come, "and soon after the King our master to be affianced."
	The King's officers are making search for the temporalities of Durham since Wolsey's entry to the bishopric of Winchester. Supposes he knows the displeasure of the King and Council to Mr. Dunnyngton and to his Grace for his sake. Wishes Wolsey had never known that man, who he fears was ordained to do his Grace harm and displeasure.
	Notwithstanding these news of the assent and seal of the university of Paris, hears that the said university will never assent thereto.
	Will come to him at the end of the term. London, the Conversion of St. Paul.
	Hol., p. 1. Add.: To my lord Cardinal's grace. Endd.: Letters to my lord Cardynal from Mr. Arondell, from James Clyffe, priest, and from Sir Marmaduke Constable.
25 Jan. Vit. B. XIII. 26 b. B. M.	6165. [RICHARD CROKE]to GHINUCCI.
	While in the chamber of Father Francis, Jacob Mantineus, a Jewish doctor, came in, saying that he had just come from the English ambassador, who asked him many questions about the affair of the king of England, and the laws of Leviticus and Deuteronomy, concerning which he had disputed by the Pope's order at Bologna. "Illicoque inter eos cœpta disputata [quibus] attentissime auscultabam, et interim cœpi Regi contrariam partem ... adeoque rationibus contemptuque rationum ipsius hominem urgebam quo ... legem ignorare suam. Et ille pertinaciter quæ nos ma ... Itaque eandem rogavit qui et unde ego esse ... D. Franciscum me hominem" * * * Yesterday morning Father F. George and his nephew came to me, with the catalogue of St. M[ark's]. Found in it the Maximus which Stokesley told him to read, two volumes of the letters of Nazianzen, and Chrysostom's works, including the Margarita. Some of these books will be given to him tomorrow, and others when he wishes, on the security of D. Dominicius. Owes everything to Father Francis; the King's ambassador does nothing for him.
	Father Francis told Mantineus, in answer to his inquiries, that Croke was a native of Flanders; and the latter asked Croke if he knew the learned young German who was with the king of England. Denied all knowledge of England. Reminds Ghinucci of Casali's conduct with Aleander, and leaves to his conjectures the reasons of these questions of Mantineus. Father Francis tells Croke today that he talked much of the king of England, the Pope, and the Emperor, saying that they would take it ill if any one wrote of these matters, and he promised to return to him the next day and show him what he had himself written. He felt sure that Father Francis had heard nothing of the King; and Croke insists that his cause has nothing to do with the Emperor or the Pope, for some of the Rota defend it, which they would not do if the Pope were angry or unwilling. Asks Ghinucci to influence some of the Rota to favor him. The King has ordered him to communicate all he does to Ghinucci, and to take his advice; but Ghinucci has not answered his letters. Asks him not to be so sparing of giving advice, that the King's cause may not suffer. He is the only person who can oppose the arts of Casalis. Fears want of money if Ghinucci goes to Rome. Wishes him to write to Father Francis. Asks how long he is to remain here. Reminds him of the dispensations for him and Foxe. "An aliquid etiam ex ... ad me scire cupio, et quas ad Regem et Stoxleium apud te reliqueram missas spero. In Stoxlei ... enim cifra est qua propediem ad ipsum sum scripturus, quæque ... apertis ipsius literis ad te transmittam."
	Scribes, librarians, books, and those who are writing in our favor, have exhausted his money, though he gives but little to each. Doubts not that they could obtain the assent of all the theologians of Padua and Venice. Venice, 25 Jan.
	Lat., draft, pp. 4. Headed: ουιγορνιενσι.
25 Jan. Vit. B. XIII. 25. B. M.	6166. GHINUCCI to _
	"Principalem suum de quantitate pecuniarum necessarium a[d] ... tionem, et inventa fuit in suplicatione data pridi[e nonas Janua]rii; itaque non videtur amplius dubitandum quin Datariu[s] ... s ne det datam illis diebus, et sic non videtur de hoc am[plius] sperandum. Vigesima quinta Januarii."
	Cipher, undeciphered. Mutilated.
25 Jan. Rym. XIV. 355.	6167. DATES OF PAPAL BREVES.
	Notarial attestation, by Ric. Watkins, of a transumpt of certain documents touching the computation of the year in Papal breves. The Temple, 25 Jan. 1529.
	Lat.