House of Commons Journal Volume 5: 20 April 1647

Die Martis, 20 Aprilis, 1647.

Prayers.

Privilege.

RESOLVED, &c. That Wm. Kinge Bailiff, and George Smythe his Man, that, contrary to the Privilege of Parliament; arrested Symon Davies, a Menial Servant to the Speaker of this House, be forthwith sent for, and apprehended as Delinquents, by the Serjeant at Arms attending on this House, for their Neglect and Contempt of the Privilege of Parliament: And that Symon Davies, so arrested, contrary to the Privilege of Parliament, be forthwith discharged and freed from the said Arrest, and from all Restraint and Imprisonment thereupon.

Leave of Absence.

Resolved, &c. That Colonel Roseter a Member of this House, shall have Leave to go into the Country.

Church Government.

Mr. Tate reported from the Committee, divers Obstructions in the Business of Church Government, with the Remedies of them: The which were read: And the Remedies, after some Amendments, upon the Question, assented unto: And likewise the Names of some Ministers to be added, as Triers, in room of the Classes, in the Province of London, to supply the Defect of those that were appointed by Ordinance, and are since gone into the Country, or removed to some other Classis.

Obstructions in the Matter of Church Government.

1. THAT, for want of Authority given by the Parliament, no Persons as yet, in most Places, have been elected, nor Division made of the several Classical Presbyteries: And that, by reason thereof, there can be no Election of Elders: And that, although Letters have been sent down to many Places, for that Service, yet they have not been executed, or the Letters have not been delivered.

2. That Returns from some Counties of their several Classis, made according to the Direction of Mr. Speaker's Letters, lie in the House, and are not proceeded upon.

3. That, in regard of the often Changes that do besal the several Classes constituted by Parliament, by reason of the Departure of Ministers, and also of Elders by Death, and otherwise; the Classes already constituted are much altered and disabled for Service, in some Places: And, by the especial Direction of both Houses to complete these Places that are thus vacant; and to enable such Congregations as shall hereafter be qualified in every Emergency; will be a Work of great Attendance to the Subject, great Trouble to the House; and, in the mean time, the Government in the Country must stay.

4. That, by the Twelfth Paragraph of the Second Ordinance for Church Government, there is appointed a Classis, to be constituted by the Congregational Elderships: But there is no Time limited, When they shall begin, and how they shall be first gathered into a Classis; nor their Power, when they shall be so gathered: Nor is the Time of the Determining of the Classes, constituted by Parliament, declared.

5. That the Provincial Meeting of the Classes of London is not determined; neither for the Time of their First Meeting, nor for the Place, nor for their Continuance.

6. That, for aught any thing doth appear, by any Ordinance in Print, nothing can be done by the Classis, unless it be by the whole Classis; and they all assembled together.

Church Government.

Remedies for removing the said Obstructions.

1. Resolved, &c. That Letters from the Speakers of both Houses of Parliament be sent into all Counties, from whence no Return hath been certified: That their respective Counties be divided into distinct Classes; and the same certified forthwith, with the Names of Ministers and others fit to be of each Classis, according to the Ordinance.

2. That such Returns from any of the Counties as are already made, or shall hereafter be made, be referred, to be considered of by the Committee of Lords and Commons for judging of Scandal: And that, so soon as such Returns shall be made, the Speakers of both Houses of Parliament do send the said Returns to the said Committee accordingly: And that such, being by them considered of and allowed, shall have Power to act according to Ordinances of Parliament.

3. That the several Classes constituted by Parliament, in the several Counties within the Limits of the said respective Classes, where no Congregational Presbyteries are already settled, shall have, from time to time, Power to nominate such Ministers and others as are qualified, according to the Ordinance, to join with them in the same, to be approved by the Committee of Lords and Commons, to judge of Scandal, until such time as Congregational Presbyteries shall be settled within the said respective Precincts: And when the said Congregational Presbyteries shall be settled within the said Limits, that then the said Congregational Presbyteries shall act according to the Power and Directions of the Ordinance in that Behalf: And that such Power shall be executed, not only in Cases of Death, or other Departure of any Minister or Elder from the Place of their wonted Dwelling; but also in case of Increase of Ministers, and Congregational Elderships, in their several Precincts.

4. That at any such Time as Seven Congregational Elderships, or more, shall be constituted in any Classical Precinct, in any of the Counties, by the respective Classes established by Parliament, the same shall by them be signified to the several Congregational Elderships so established: And the said Congregational Elderships shall forthwith proceed to depute such of their Elders as are most fit: Who, together with their Ministers, according to the Ordinance of Parliament, shall meet as a Classis; and shall be, to all Intents and Purposes, thenceforth the Classis of that Precinct; and execute all Power belonging to such or any former Classis: And the Classis, formerly constituted by Parliament, shall cease, as to that Precinct.

5. That the Elders of the Classis of the Province of London shall hold their Provincial Assembly in the Convocation House, at Paul's Church, in London, upon the first Monday in May next ensuing: And may adjourn their Meeting de die in diem; and conclude their Meeting with Adjournment unto the next Opportunity, according to the Ordinance of Parliament: And that no Act shall pass, or be valid, in the said Province of London, but what shall be done by the Number of Six-and-thirty present, or the major Part of them; whereof Twelve to be Ministers, and Four-and-twenty to be Ruling Elders: And that the first Meeting of the provincial Assemblies, in the several Counties, may be appointed by the Committee of Lords and Commons aforesaid; and may adjourn as aforesaid: Who are to appoint the Number of which each Province shall consist; and the Quorum that shall act in each Province.

6. That, in the Classical Meeting of all Classes, that which shall be done by the major Part present, shall be esteemed as the Act of the whole Classical Number: And the same to hold in the City of London, in their Meeting of Triers; and in all their Classical Meetings; and in the several Counties: And that no Act done by any Classis shall be valid and good, unless it be done by the Number of Fifteen present, or the major Part of them; whereof Five to be Ministers, and Ten to be Ruling Elders.

The Lords Concurrence to be desired herein.

Mr. Tate is appointed to carry it to the Lords.

The Names of some Ministers to be added, as Triers, in some of the Classes in the Province of London, to supply the Defect of those that were appointed by Ordinance, and are since gone into the Country, or removed to some other Classis.

The Lords Concurrence to be desired herein.

Mr. Tate is appointed to carry it to the Lords.

Grant for Irish Service.

Resolved, &c. That the Sum of Twelve thousand, Pounds, granted by former Order of Friday last, 16 of this Instant April, upon the Credit of the Two hundred thousand Pounds, to be borrowed of the City of London, be made Twenty thousand Pounds upon the same Credit.

And whereas the said Sum is, by the said Order, appointed to be employed for the Service of Dublyn only: It is now Ordered, That the said Sum be employed for the Service of Ireland.

Sir Wm. Lewes carried to the Lords, for their Concurrence, the Ordinance for advancing the Sum of Twenty thousand Pounds, upon the Credit of the Two hundred thousand Pounds borrowed of the City of London, for the Service of Ireland.

Dorchester Ministers, &c.

The humble Petition of the Mayor, Bailiffs, Aldermen, and Capital Burgesses of Dorchester in the County of Dorsett, was this Day read; and was, for an Increase of Maintenance for the Ministers of Dorchester, and the Schoolmaster there: and likewise for the Vicar of Fordington in the said County, out of the Impropriate Rectory of Fordington, Parcel of the Possessions of the Dean and Chapter of Salisbury: And

It is thereupon Ordered, That an Ordinance be brought for settling the said Increase of Maintenance upon their Ministers and Schoolmaster, and on the Vicar of Fordington, according to the Desires of the Petitioners, in their said Petition. And Mr. Dennis Bond is to take Care hereof.

Loan from the City.

Mr. Hollis reports the Answer of the Common Council, of 17 Aprilis 1647, to the Proposition of both Houses of Parliament, for the borrowing of Two hundred thousand Pounds, for the Service of England and Ireland.

Commune Concilium tent' in Camera Guildhalde Civitatis London. 17 Aprilis 1647.

THIS Court, having received a Proposition from both Houses of Parliament, by several Members thereof, for the Borrowing of Two hundred Thousand Pounds for the Service of England and Ireland, upon the Security of the Remainder of the Bishops Lands, as it was formerly given, with the collateral Security of the Excise in Course, Papists and Delinquents Estates, in Arms, excepted from Pardon, and any other Security as is in the Power of the Parliament, and not already engaged, except the Ordinance now in Passing, for the Raising of the monthly Sum of Sixty thousand Pounds, for the Service of the Forces of England and Ireland; do humbly return this Answer:

1. That, in their Opinion, the best Way, and readiest Means, for the speedy Advancing of this Two hundred thousand Pounds, propounded to be borrowed by the Parliament, is, to secure to the Lenders a like Sum more, as was lately done unto those who advanced the Two hundred thousand Pounds, for our Brethren of Scotland.

2. More particularly, that they conceive it would be an Encouragement to the Lenders, and a furtherance to the Service, to secure unto those who shall now lend any Monies upon this Proposition, the Loans and Disbursements following:

1. The Monies paid upon the Ordinance for raising Fifty Subsidies; which Monies were employed for the publick Service: And all other Sums lent upon the latter Expedition into Kent, upon the Second Commotion there, for which the City Seal stands yet engaged: Together with the Interest arising upon both Loans, since the Advancing thereof.

2. All Monies, Plate, or Horses, with their Furniture and Arms, advanced upon the Publick Faith or Propositions; and all Monies advanced toward the Loan of Thirty thousand Pounds, in or about November 1642; and of Forty thousand Pounds, in or about April 1643; and of Twenty-three thousand Pounds, in and about May 1643; not already repaid: Together also with Interest due thereupon.

3. All Monies lent towards the Raising of the Fifty thousand Pounds, borrowed for the Service of Ireland, in or about November 1641, with the Interest likewise due upon the same.

4. All Monies lent in the Year 1641, which are yet unpaid, upon the Security of the Act of Parliament, for the speedy Raising of Monies for disbanding the Armies, and settling the Peace of the Two Kingdoms of England and Scotland, with the Interest arising thereupon: As for Example, If there be owing to any Person, for any of the Services aforesaid, One hundred Pounds, Principal, which, with Interest for Four Years past, will make One hundred Thirty-two Pounds; he, adventuring One hundred Thirty-two Pounds more, may be secured for the whole Two hundred Sixty-four Pounds; and so proportionably for a greater or lesser Sum; and according to the Interest due thereupon.

3. Because many poor and decayed Citizens, and other Persons, cannot double the Monies, they are and have been so many Years out of Purse, upon the Propositions, and the Publick Faith, they conceive it very equal, that now some Course should be taken for their Satisfaction; and humbly propound, That if the Parliament would please to add Thirty thousand Pounds more, to the present Proposition of Two hundred thousand Pounds, to be presently raised and secured, in like manner as the said Two hundred thousand Pounds; it would redound to the Honour of the Parliament, be a very charitable Work, and conduce very much to the Furtherance of the whole Service: The same Thirty thousand Pounds to be also presently raised; and, by a Committee to be appointed by this Court, to be divided amongst such poor and decayed Citizens, and other Persons, as they shall find most to stand in need thereof; not exceeding Ten Pounds, Principal, to any one Person, besides the Interest due upon the same.

4. That, for the Security and Repayment of this Two hundred and Thirty thousand Pounds, presently to be raised, and as much more, to be secured as aforesaid, and the future Interest, after Eight Pounds per Cent. arising upon the Whole, they conceive, according as is propounded from both Houses, that the several Securities, hereafter named, are the most fitting to be given; and will be the most probable way to raise this Money:

1. The Fines and Compositions of Delinquents already made, but not received, or hereafter to be made, at Goldsmiths Hall, or other where, in Course: And, in the Interim, the Rents and Profits of the Lands and Estates of such Delinquents, till their Compositions be made.

2. The Remainder of the Proceed of the Bishops Lands, after they shall be clear of the present Engagements.

3. The Receipts of the Grand Excise in Course.

4. The Lands and Estates of Papists in Arms, and Delinquents excepted from Pardon; their just Debts, made before the First of April 1642, being first paid.

Loan from the City.

5. That the Interest of this whole Sum of Four hundred and Sixty thousand Pounds, or so much as, from time to time, shall be due upon such Principal, as shall rest unsatisfied out of the Securities last before named, be paid every Six Months, out of the Receipts of the Grand Excise, till Principal and Interest be fully discharged.

6. That, during this Treaty upon the Propositions aforesaid, and until all Matters be fully agreed and perfected thereupon, neither the Receipts at Goldsmiths Hall, nor of the Excise, be further anticipated, charged, or engaged.

7. That it may be lawful for any Person to assign his Right and Interest in any Sum or Sums of Money, owing unto him, upon the several Particulars before recited, or any of them, to any Person or Persons that will advance the like Sum, in manner as is before expressed.

8. That, for the better Encouragement of the Lenders, Treasurers may be named by the Common Council to receive and pay these Monies; and that the same be not issued out, but only for the Disbanding of the Army; and for the Service of Ireland; and for the decayed Citizens, and other poor Persons, as before expressed.

9. That a Committee of Citizens, and others, being Adventurers for Ireland, may be chosen among themselves: And that they may be consulted with by such Committees of Parliament, as shall be appointed for providing Necessaries for Ireland; to the end the Monies may be laid out to the best Advantage, for the Service of that Kingdom.

Michel.

Resolved, &c. That for the speedy Advancing of the Two hundred thousand Pounds, propounded to be borrowed, the Lenders, as well Citizens, as others, of the said Two hundred thousand Pounds, shall be secured a like Sum more, as was lately done unto those who advanced the Two hundred thousand Pounds for our Brethren of Scotland.

Resolved, &c. That all such Sums of Money, lent upon the Ordinance of 18 Augusti 1643, intituled, "An Ordinance of the Lords and Commons, assembled in Parliament, for the speedy Raising of Monies within the City of London, and Liberties thereof, for the Relief and Maintenance of the Armies raised, and to be raised, for the necessary Defence of the City and Liberties aforesaid," raised according to the Proportions of Fifty Subsidies; and all other Sums of Money lent upon the Expedition into Kent, upon the Commotion there; for which the City Seal stands yet engaged; together with the Interest arising upon both those Loans since the Advancing thereof, shall be admitted to be secured upon the Proposition of Advanceing of this Two hundred thousand Pounds: And in like manner all Monies, Plate, or Horses, with their Furniture and Arms, advanced upon the Publick Faith or Propositions; and all Monies advanced towards the Loan of Thirty thousand Pounds, in or about November 1642, and of Forty thousand Pounds, in or about April 1643; and of Twenty-three thousand Pounds, in and about May 1643; not already repaid; together with Interest upon the same: The which said several Sums were advanced upon the pressing Necessities of England and Ireland: And in like manner all Monies lent towards the Raising of the Fifty thousand Pounds, borrowed for the Service of Ireland, in or about November 1641, with the Interest due upon the same: And in like manner all Monies lent in the Year 1641, which are yet unpaid, upon the Security of the Act of Parliament, for the speedy Raising of Monies for Disbanding the Armies, and settling the Peace of the Two Kingdoms of England and Scotland, with the Interest arising thereupon.

Resolved, &c. That this Proposition concerning the satisfying such poor Persons as have advanced any Monies upon the Publick Faith, be committed unto the Members of this House that are of the Committee that was appointed to go into the City of London, upon the Proposition of borrowing the Sum of Two hundred thousand Pounds; with the Addition of these Members following, as to this Purpose;

Loan from the City.

Colonel Birch, Mr. Gott, Mr. Hoskins, Mr. Scott. Mr. Stephens, Mr. Boone, Mr. Jesson, Mr. Boyce, Mr. Ball, Mr. Greene, Mr. Challoner, Mr. Sallway, Sir Thomas Dacres, Mr. Clarke, Mr. Long, Mr. Grimston, Sir Robert Harley, Mr. Hodges, Mr. Swinfen, Mr. Bond, Mr. Pigott, Mr. Blackeston, Commissary Ireton, Sir John Young, Mr. Boothe: And all that will come to have Voices: And are to meet upon it To-morrow at Two of Clock, in the Exchequer Chamber: And are to bring in their Report with all convenient Speed. And the more particular Care of this Business is referred unto Mr. Gott and Mr. Ball.

Resolved, &c. That, for Security and Repayment of the Two hundred thousand Pounds to be presently raised, and as much to be secured as aforesaid, and the future Interest, after Eight Pounds per Cent. arising upon the Whole, the Remainder of the Proceed of the Bishops Lands, after they shall be clear of the present Engagements, shall be given as Security.

Resolved, &c. That the Receipts of the Grand Excise, in Course, shall be likewise given as Security.

The Question being put, Whether these Words, "For such Compositions as shall be made upon Papists in Arms, and Delinquents Estates, excepted from Pardon," shall be made to the Proposition concerning Papists in Arms, and Delinquents Estates, excepted from Pardon, to be given as Security;

The Question passed with the Negative.

The Question being put, Whether these Words be added to the Clause concerning the Delinquents and Papists Estates to be Security for these Monies to be now borrowed; viz. "And excepting former Engagements that have been made by both or either House of Parliament; and excepting Impropriations;

The Question passed with the Affirmative.

The Question was propounded, That the Lands and Estates of Papists in Arms, and Delinquents excepted from Pardon; their just Debts, made before the First of April 1642, being first paid; and excepting former Engagements, that have been made by both or either House of Parliament; and excepting Impropriations; shall be given for Security.

And the Question being put, Whether this Question shall be now put;

It passed with the Affirmative.

Resolved, &c. That the Lands and Estates of Papifts in Arms; their just Debts, made before the First of April 1642, being first paid; and excepting former Engagements, that have been made by both or either House of Parliament; and excepting Impropriations; shall be given as a Part of the Security.

The Question was propounded, That the Fines and Compositions of Delinquents, already made, but not received; or hereafter to be made, at Goldsmiths Hall, or elsewhere; and, in the Interim, the Rents and Profits of the Lands and Estates of such Delinquents, till their Composition be made; shall be given as Security:

And the Question being put, Whether this Question shall be now put;

It passed with the Affirmative.

And the Question being put, That the Fines aud Compositions of Delinquents already made, and not received; and the Fines and Compositions to be made at Goldsmiths Hall, or elsewhere; and in the Interim, the Rents and Profits of the Lands and Estates of such Delinquents, till their Composition be made; shall be given as Security;

It passed with the Negative.

Resolved, &c. That the Interest of this whole Sum of Four hundred thousand Pounds, or so much as, from time to time, shall be due upon such Principal, as shall rest unsatisfied, out of the Securities last before named, be paid every Six Months out of the Receipts of the Grand Excise, till Principal and Interest be fully discharged.

The Question being put, That, during this Treaty upon the Proposition aforesaid, and until all Matters be fully agreed and perfected thereupon, neither the Receipts at Goldsmiths Hall, nor of the Excise, be further anticipated, charged, or engaged;

It passed with the Negative.

Resolved, &c. That it may be lawful for any Person to assign his Right and Interest in any Sum or Sums of Money, owing unto him upon the several Particulars before recited, or any of them, to any Person or Persons that will advance the like Sum, in manner as is before expressed.

Resolved, &c. That a Committee of Citizens, and others, being Adventurers for Ireland, may be chosen amongst themselves, whose Names are to be presented to both Houses; and that they may be heard; and those Things which they shall offer be considered of, by such Committees of Parliament as shall be appointed for providing Necessaries for Ireland; to the end that it may be done to the best Advantage, for the Service of that Kingdom.

Ordered, upon the Question, that the Lords Concurrence be desired in these Resolutions passed, concerning the Proposition for borrowing Two hundred thousand Pounds.

Grant for Irish Service.

Ordered, &c. That the Commissioners, that are appointed to go into Ireland, shall have Power to dispose of the Ten thousand Pounds, assigned for the Service of Dublyn, according to such Directions as they have or shall receive from the Committee of Lords and Commons for the Affairs of Ireland, at Derby House.

Leave of Absence.

Ordered, &c. That Colonel Booth, a Member of this House, shall have Leave to go into the Country.

Bishops Lands.

The Lords and Commons, in Parliament assembled, do Declare, that the Clause in the Ordinance of 16° Novembris, for the Sale of Bishops Lands, which excepts the Sale of Churches, Chapels, and Places of Burial, shall not extend, nor is intended to extend, to hinder the Sale of any private Chapel, in or belonging to the Palace and Mansion Houses of the late Archbishops and Bishops; but that the said private Chapels may and ought to be sold, together with the said Palaces and Mansion Houses, notwithstanding any Clause in the said Ordinance contained.

The Lords Concurrence to be desired herein.

Days of Recreation.

The humble Petition of the Apprentices of London, and Parts adjacent, was this Day read; desiring some Days to be appointed for lawful Recreations.

Resolved, &c. That the Second Tuesday in every Month shall be appointed for a Day of Recreation for all young Scholars, Apprentices, and Servants throughout the Kingdom; and that an Ordinance be prepared, and speedily brought in, to this Purpose.

Mr. Gott, Mr. Reynolds, Mr. Allen, Colonel James Temple, Mr. Weaver, Mr. Ball, Lieutenant General Cromwell;

This Committee, or any Three of them, are to prepare this Ordinance for Days of Recreation, and for suppressing the Observation of Festivals and Holy Days: And are to meet when and where they please.