House of Commons Journal Volume 4: 10 January 1646

Die Sabbati, 10 Januarii, 1645.

Prayers.

MR. Lisle makes his Report concerning the Forces before Dennington-Castle.

A Message from the Lords, by Sir Edward Leech and Mr. Page;

The Lords have commanded us to deliver unto you this Report from the Committee of both Kingdoms, and this Order upon it; in which they desire your Concurrence: It is for the Conferring of some Command upon Sir Trevour Williams and Colonel Morgan; and likewise a Letter from the Commissioners from Nottingham, of Januarii 4 : Which they especially recommend unto the serious Consideration of this House.

The Lords Order concerning Sir Trevour Williams and Captain Morgan was read; and by this House assented unto.

The Letter from the Commissioners from Nottingham, of Januarii 4 ; and the Remonstrance of Colonel-General Poynze; were read: And

It is Ordered, &c. That this Letter and Remonstrance be referred to the Committee of the Northern Association, where Sir Thomas Widdrington hath the Chair; to consider of something, and to offer it to the House, that may be conferred upon Colonel-General Poynze, in respect of his good Services; and to settle his own personal Entertainment; and a Maintenance for a Scoutmaster-General, Spies, and other incident Charges.

An Ordinance for reimbursing and securing out of the Receipts of the Excise, Two thousand Five hundred Pounds, with Interest, to such as shall advance and lend the same; being the Residue of Five thousand Pounds, charged formerly upon the Receipts of the Excise, for the Service of Colonel-General Poynts his Forces, was this Day read; and upon the Question, passed; and ordered to be sent unto the Lords for their Concurrence.

Answer returned by the same Messengers; That this House hath considered their Lordships Message: And, as to the Order concerning Sir Trevour Williams, and Colonel Antony Morgan, they do agree: And, as to the Business concerning Colonel-General Poynts, they have taken it into Consideration; and will speedily send Answer by Messengers of their own.

Resolved, &c. That this House doth concurr with the Lords; and doth order, That Sir Trevour Williams shall have the Command of the Forces in the County of Monmouth: And that Colonel Antony Morgan shall speedily have a Regiment for the Service of the Kingdom, and especially for the Service of Wales.

Ordered, &c. That the Committee for Ammunition do out of the publick Stores, speedily furnish Two Ton of Match, for the Service of the Forces of Dorsettshire.

Mr. Lisle reported the Business concerning the Horse before Dennington-Castle.

The Report from the Lords likewise, concerning those Forces, was likewise read.

Resolved, &c. That the Report concerning the Forces before Dennington, under Colonel Dolbier, be recommitted to the same Committee; to confer, upon the whole Report, with the Committee of both Kingdoms, What is fit to be done therein; and to report their Opinions to the House.

Ordered, &c. That, on Thursday Morning next, the first Business, the Grand Committee of the whole House do sit, to examine the Business concerning Mr. Long and Mr. Allen: And that then likewise, the Business referred to the Committee of Examinations, concerning one that spake Words in Disgrace of the Ordinances of Parliament, be reported: And the Business complained of by Mr. Cawley, ordered for that Day, is likewise referred to the Examination of the said Committee.

A Message from the Lords, by Sir Edward Leech and Mr. Page;

The Lords have sent you this Report from the Committee of both Kingdoms: It is concerning Propositions for the Scotts Army: They desire you would take it into speedy Consideration, because the Quartermaster-General stays in Town, on purpose, expecting a Dispatch therein.

The humble Petition of Peter Baxter, Serjeant-Major, and Captain of Hurst-Castle in the County of Southampton, was this Day read: And

It is Ordered, &c. That it be referred to the Committee of Hants, to consider of an Establishment, and settled Maintenance, of the additional Soldiers of Hurst-Castle in the County of Southampton.

Ordered, &c. That the Committee of Lords and Commons for Advance of Monies, at Haberdashers-Hall, do pay unto Serjeant-Major Peter Baxter, Captain of Hurst-Castle, upon Accompt, Two hundred Pounds, to be deducted out of the Arrears due unto him, upon his Entertainment.

Answer returned by the same Messengers;

The House hath considered your Message; and will send Answer by Messengers of their own.

Ordered, &c. That Mr. Greene do make the Report concerning the Business of the Excise, on Tuesday Morning next, the first Business: And that Mr. Speaker do put the House in mind hereof.

Ordered, &c. That the House do sit on Tuesday next, in the Afternoon, to receive the Reports for such Compositions at the Committee of Goldsmiths-Hall, as have been made according to the Rules and Directions of this House, and submitted to by the Persons who have made the said Compositions.

Ordered, &c. That the Reports for such Compositions and Fines as have been set by Order of this House, or otherwise, and do differ from the Rules and Directions for Compositions, be made on Saturday Morning next, the first Business: And that Mr. Speaker do put the House in mind hereof.

The Letter from the Commissioners of both Houses residing with the Scotts Army, of the Third of January 1645, from Nottingham, formerly read the Fifth of this instant January, was this Day read again.

Several Letters and Papers inclosed in the said Letter, and sent up to the Parliament from the said Commissioners, being the Transaction of several Passages between them and Lieutenant-General David Lesley, concerning the Pay and Musters of the Scotts Army; and the Petition and Desires of the Gentlemen and Inhabitants of the County of Nottingham, on the North-side Trent, concerning the said Army; were all this Day read.

Ordered, &c. That the Commissioners of both Houses residing with the Scotts Army, upon Musters, do provide for and pay, according to the Treaty, such Scotts Horse and Foot, being Scotchmen, as are now before Newarke.

A Letter from the Scotts Commissioners, concerning the Pay and Provisions of their Army, of 10 January 1645, was this Day read.

Sir John Evelyn reports, from the Committee to whom the Scotts Paper, of the Sixth of this instant January, . . . . . Reasons to be offered, Why the Scottish Horse shall be reduced to the Number of the Treaty: The which were read; and were as followeth; viz.

By the Treaty of 29 Novembris 1643, concerning the Bringing in of the Scottish Army, it was agreed, That an Army should be there levied forthwith, consisting of Eighteen thousand Foot, effective, and Two thousand Horse, and One thousand Dragoons, effective, with a suitable Train of Artillery, to march into England.

By an Order of this House, bearing Date 22 Junii 1644, it was recommended to the Committee of both Kingdoms, to signify to the Kingdom of Scotland the Desires of both Houses, That the Forces already raised, and in raising, by the Kingdom of Scotland, being, as is reported, about Ten thousand, be invited forthwith to come in for our Assistance.

After this, of 27 Decembris, was ordered; and then, 31 Decembris, was further ordered.

After which were several Ordinances made, for the Provision of the Scottish Army in general, by Assessments upon the several Counties, and Imposition on the Coal of Newcastle: And never any Distinction made of the First and Second Army.

The Resolve of the House of Commons was not for the Abridging of the Number of the Scottish Forces, but for reducing the Numbers of Horse to the Treaty: And, as they shall never forget the Engagements and Undertakings of that Kingdom for This; so they are confident That Nation will remember the first and great Testimony of brotherly Affection, which was given them by this Parliament.

That the Kingdom of Scotland could not send any Forces into this Kingdom without their Consent; and therefore what Number soever was agreed upon by both Kingdoms, was binding, and ought not . . be exceeded.

We do not know what the Number of Horse were, which first came into this Kingdom; nor that, when the Earl of Calender's Horse came into this Kingdom, the whole Force of the Scottish Horse, then in England, did exceed the Number of the First Treaty; considering, that, in that time, many of the first Horse were probably diminished. As no Force ought to have been brought into this Kingdom without our Consent, so no Alteration ought to have been made in the Condition of those Forces without our Approbation.

That as it might seem reasonable to increase their Horse, when the Service required it, so, upon the same Reason, that Service being now most for Foot, they ought to be reduced to the Number of the Treaty.

That, for the Security and Preservation of their Army, we did several times send great Parties of English Horse to that Army; although the Body of Scottish Horse did march out of England into Scotland, without our Privity or Consent.

The said several Reasons were, upon the Question, assented unto; and ordered to be presented as an Answer to that Part of the Scotts Paper, concerning the supernumerary Horse of the Scotts Army.

The Lords Concurrence to be desired herein.

Ordered, That it be referred to the Members of both Houses that are of the Committee of both Kingdoms, to confer with the Scotts Commissioners, concerning that Part of their Paper of the Sixth of this instant January, which concerns their supernumerary Horse; and to offer unto them the Reasons approved by this House, Why their Horse should be reduced to the Number of the Treaty; and such other Reasons as they shall think fit, for Maintenance of the Vote of this House of the Fifth of this instant January, That, in the Scotts Army in this Kingdom, there shall not be above Two thousand Horse, and One thousand Dragoons, according to the Treaty.

The Lords Concurrence to be desired herein; and also to the Vote of the Fifth of this instant January, for reducing the Horse and Dragoons of the Scotts Army to the Numbers of the Treaty.

Ordered, &c. That a Conference be desired with the Lords: And that the Orders of this House, and the Reasons this Day approved of, for reducing the Scotts Horse to the Numbers of the Treaty, be communicated at the said Conference.

The Letter from the Committee of Cumberland, from Keswick, of Decembris 25 1645, was this Day read; and ordered to be communicated to the Lords at a Conference.

Ordered, &c. That Mr. Barwis do, on Monday next, bring in all such Letters, Papers, Warrants, and Acquittances, as concern the Scotts levying and raising Monies by their own Authority, without any Order or Consent of both the Houses of Parliament; that they may be here read; and communicated at a Conference: And that the Letter from Mr. Blakston, Mayor of Newcastle, be then likewise read.

Ordered, &c. That it be referred to the Committee of Examinations, to send for Colonel Stockdale; and to examine him concerning the Raising and Furnishing of Troops, and a Regiment of English, by Commission from the Scotts General; and report his Examination on Monday Morning; to the end it may be communicated to the Lords at a Conference.

Ordered, &c. That it shall be likewise communicated to the Lords at the Conference, that Particular of the Scotts raising and forming Troops, and Regiments of English, by their own Commissions.

Ordered, &c. That the Lords be desired at the Conference, That it may be referred to the Members of both Houses that are of the Committee of both Kingdoms, to acquaint the Scotts Commissioners with these Particulars; and to confer with them thereupon; and to settle some Way of Redress, according to the Rules and Orders formerly agreed upon.