House of Commons Journal Volume 11: 6 November 1696

Veneris, 6 die Novembris;

Octavo Gulielmi Tertii.

Prayers.

Mr. Adams thanked.

ORDERED, That the Thanks of this House be given to Mr. Adams for the Sermon by him preached before this House, Yesterday at St. Margaret's Westminster: And that he be desired to print the same: And that Mr. Rowney and Mr. Harcourt do acquaint him therewith.

Coinage.

A Petition of the chief Inhabitants and Tradesmen of the City of Coventry, on behalf of themselves, and many Thousands in and about the said City, was presented to the House, and read; setting forth, That notwithstanding the great Difficulties they have been put to in relation to the Coin, they have, in some measure, continued their Trades, and employed the Poor, under great Expectations that their unclipped hammered Money would have continued current among them; but that the same is voted by this House to go by Weight only at 5s. and 2d. per Ounce; which will put such a Disappointment upon all their Affairs, that they must lay down their Trades, and the Poor consequently perish; they conceiving the paying the said old Money by the Ounce to be impracticable, especially in dividing the same into many small Shares, for Wages to the Poor, under Twelvepence apiece: And praying the Consideration of the House, and Relief in the Premises.

Ordered, That the Consideration of the said Petition be referred to the Committee of the whole House, to whom the Bill for the further Remedying the ill State of the Coin of the Kingdom; and encouraging the bringing Plate into the Mints, to be coined; is committed.

Supply Bill: Coinage.

Then the House, according to the Order of the Day, resolved itself into a Committee of the whole House, to consider of the Bill for the further Remedying the ill State of the Coin of the Kingdom; and encouraging the bringing Plate into the Mints, to be coined.

Mr. Speaker left the Chair.

Colonel Wharton took the Chair of the Committee.

Mr. Speaker resumed the Chair.

Colonel Wharton reported from the said Committee, That they had made some Progress in the Matters to them referred; and had directed him to move, That they may have Leave to fit again.

Resolved, That this House will, upon Thursday Morning next, resolve itself into a Committee of the whole House, to consider further of the said Bill.

Mr. Russell acquainted the House, That his Majesty had been pleased to let his Council know what Proceedings had been against Sir John Fenwick; and to have the Papers of his Informations read before them: That, in those Papers, several Persons of Quality were named; and, amongst others, himself: That his Majesty had given him Leave to say this; and to Mr. Secretary, to lay the Papers before this House, if they should think fit to call for them: Whereupon,

Mr. Secretary Trumball acquainted the House, That he had Two Papers of Sir John Fenwick's Informations; which, if the House pleased, he was ready, by his Majesty's Command, to lay before the House:

And he delivered the same in at the Table: Where the same were read; and are as follow; viz.

AFTER King James returned to France from Ireland, there was a select Number of his Friends intrusted by him to manage his Affairs here, who held a constant Correspondence with him, and his then Secretary of State, by his Command; who used all Methods possible to advance his Interest, by engaging Men in Places of Trust in the Government, Fleet, and Army, to his Party; and, by the Accounts they gave from hence, to move the French King to attempt his Restoration: But with little Success: for, till the Year before the Business of La Hogue, we knew only of my Lord Godolphin, concerned in this Government, who held a Correspondence with him, from the time he went over; in whom, King James, as he had often expressed in his Letters, had an entire Confidence.

This Winter my Lord Middleton came to Town, who had often been desired to go over, believing it would be great Service to King James to have him there in his Business; he alleged he could do little Service by going, unless he could engage and settle a Correspondence here before he went, (which he was endeavouring, and hoped to effect in a little time) with some Men in this Government, who had Power in their Hands, and were the only Men capable to serve him; for his Friends, being out of all Employments, could make him little Help; that he had entered into this Affair with my Lord Shrewsbury and my Lord Godolphin already; and there were some others who, he believed, he should gain, and then he would go.

Soon after, Captain Floyd, a Groom of the Bed-chamber to King James, was sent over to him from my Lord Marlborough and Admiral Russell, with an Assurance from them of their Interest in the Fleet and Army; which they did not doubt but to secure to him, if he would grant them his Pardon for what was past: At his Return, which was within a Month, he acquainted me with some Things King James had ordered him; and told me, He had no Difficulty in Mr. Russell's Affair; but the Answer to my Lord Marlborough was, That he was the greatest of Criminals where he had the greatest Obligations; but, if he did him extraordinary Service, he might hope for Pardon: And, a little after, he did a consideraable Piece of Service; of which we had an Account by One sent on Purpose by King James.

Captain Floyd went again for France, and came to King James at La Hague, with an Account of the Fleet; That we could not put out 30 Sail before the latter End of May; which he carried from Mr. Russell.

My Lord Middleton, having settled this Correspondence, went over in March following: After he arrived, King James wrote, That, upon the Assurance he had brought of these Men being engaged in his Service, the French Ministers had espoused his Interest; and he hoped, now, the French King would lend him such an Assistance as he should see us in a short time.

Proceedings against Fenwick.

My Lord Middleton then pressed King James to put out the Declaration which they had drawn, and sent over, before he went; but was not approved of; it being a general Pardon for all should be done till his Landing; which exposed his Friends, in the mean time, to all Severities: He had sent to us before, to send him the Heads for one we thought would be most acceptable to the People; in which there was some Exceptions: But my Lord Middleton prevailed for the other; pretending it was absolutely necessary to make it a general Pardon, for a Security to the great Men for their Lives and Fortunes; that it would draw many People to his Party, and strengthen their Interest so much, as they did not doubt but, with a little Help from France, to restore him soon.

This Declaration being published, and finding no Performance of the great Promises made for it, and that these Men were engaged with a Commonwealth's Party, we advised to take care of trusting them too much; and, that we doubted they had procured that Declaration more for their own Security, whenever he should be restored, than any Service intended to him.

Soon after this, my Lord Shrewsbury, who had laid down his Employment at the time he first treated with my Lord Middleton, came into his Place again; which gave great Apprehensions, that what had passed during this time would be betrayed to this Government: We expressed our Fears of it to King James; but was answered, not to be dissatisfied, for it was with his Consent he came in; that he was more capable of doing him Service, and took off all Suspicion of the Correspondence he held. A little after he came in, Captain Floyd was sent hither, to know what Proposals King James might make to the French King, upon the Assistance he might expect from them: The Answer he had was, That they could do nothing till the King here was removed; which we understood to be his next going into Flanders; and thought it too slight a Ground to move the French King to take any Measures upon, for an Attempt here: Upon this, it was thought fit a considerable Man should go over, to lay the Danger before him of depending too much upon these Men, whose Party were Enemies to all Kings, left they might engage him in some Undertaking might prove his Ruin: At his coming there, he desired he might not see my Lord Middleton; his Business being of that Nature as was not fit for him to hear, because of his Correspondence with this Party: King James told him, He must see him; but he would give him an Opportunity to discourse his Business in private: When he returned, he acquainted us with this; and that he had fully discoursed him in all he was intrusted with: That he found he reposed an entire Confidence in them: Said, They were the Men could do him the best Service; that they were grown weary of this Government; and the Promises he had made them of Honours and Employments would bind them to him; that he would try what they would do, whenever the French King had an Opportunity to attempt his Restoration; but desired we would still continue to advance his Interest; and, whenever he returned, he should know how to value those who had been always firm to him.

From this Time great Endeavours were used by this Party to remove my Lord Melford: And, we supposed, this Man's going was one great Occasion; my Lord Middleton not being acquainted with this Business: After he was out, we were ordered to write to Mr. Carrill; who gave us little Encouragement any thing would be soon done from thence; the French King's Fleet being gone to the Streights, a Famine in his Country, and a false Calculation made of his Money, which had forced him to reduce his Army; and ordered us to keep ourselves quiet, for he must take his Measures from this Party for the Time of his coming; on whom he must now depend.

Proceedings against Fenwick.

In Spring last Year, one Crosby a Secretary under my Lord Middleton, came over; who had been several times sent to this Party before; and had engaged some Men in the Assassination; who he asked, at his coming, If they had received the Commission for levying War, and seizing the King; which Commission they had desired, as a Security for themselves, against King James, for this Undertaking; they told him, It was not come; he affirmed, He saw it signed by King James before he came away: The Thing at that time was prevented; nor did that Commission, he mentioned, ever come. These Men believing they were imposed upon by Crosby, One of them resolved to go over, to know the Truth: Before he went, he acquainted some of King James's Friends with it; who, detesting so base an Action, told him, It would be a great Service to inform him what an Infamy Crosby had thrown upon him; and that he ought to be severely punished, to prevent any such thing for the future: He affirmed to King James, before Crosby, what he had said: He reproved him, and told him, He should be no more employed in his Service.

We had few Letters after this; and those ordered us, as before, to keep ourselves quiet, and not meddle in any thing, for Measures were taken from other People: And the last Letter we had from King James himself, dated the 4th of February last, their Stile, said, The Thoulon Fleet would sail the 22th; but what they would do next, he could not tell: Which was all material in it: And the only Hopes we had, something would be done when it arrived.

This Attempt of the Assassination then broke out; with which we were all surprised; and found ourselves exposed, without having the least Notice given us, so much as to take care of ourselves; and which, we believed, was the Measures taken to restore King James.

All this time, Endeavours were used by our Friends to make an Interest in the Fleet; but found it to little Purpose to engage private Captains; for, unless all their Men were of their Mind, which was impossible, they could do no Service: Captain Bottome, and Captain Carter, had both promised to go in, that Year, as I remember, my Lord Torrington commanded: The first was killed in the Attempt; and the Officer who commanded the Land-men on board him mutinied, seeing his Design: The other broke his Word, and fought that Day, and was killed. The Officers commanding in chief were therefore applied to; and that Year the Fleet was commanded by Commission: Sir Ralph Delaval, and Killigrew, were both engaged to serve King James: Their Opinion was asked of Shovell; they said, He was not a Man to be spoke to; but they could master him as they pleased: The Service they promised was, to sail the Fleet out of the Way, and let King James pass by; and declare for him when he was landed: I saw the Account was sent to King James of it; and his Answer: Wherein, he returned his Thanks, with Promise of Rewards and Employments when he was restored.

As for the Army; King James depends upon my Lord Marlborough's Interest; who can do what he pleases with most of those who served in King James his time: At their going into Ireland, Major-General Kirk, and Maine, and some other inferior Officers, had promised to go in; but none performed: Since that time, there was no Opportunity of making any Application to them; those left here lying in the Country, and being changed every Year; and the main Army always abroad; where the only Service they could do was to desert to the French; who would not receive them, because they would not trust them.

It was therefore thought the best Service, to secure some of the Garrisons here; of which there was Four; Plymouth, by my Lord of Bath; Barwick, by Billingsly, the DeputyGovernor, who was generally upon the Place; Sheernesse, by Crawford; and Langer Fort, by that Governor, if it be the same was Two Years ago, whose Name I have forgot: King James had an Assurance of their Service, that they would declare for him whenever he landed.

Sir John Fenwick's Information, taken the 23d September 1696.

Whereas I told his Majesty, There were some Persons here who held a Correspondence with King James, and his Secretary Melfort; they were the Earl of Ailesbury, my Lord Montgomery, my Lord Brudenall, Mr. Richard Morley, Peter Cook, and myself.

We used to write to my Lord Melfort constantly: We generally met at my Lord Ailesbury's; but sometimes at my Lord Montgomerie's, and sometimes at my House: We agreed what should be writ; and, for the most part, every one wrote his own Letters: the Letters were generally put into Peter Cook's Hands; and, I believe, he delivered them to Birkenhead; who had an Allowance from King James of 100 l. per Annum, for conveying the Letters backward and forward.

My Lord Ailesbury writ often to King James; and my Lord Montgomery held a Correspondence with the Queen; for I have seen him read several of her Letters.

Lord Melfort, for the most part, writ One Letter to be communicated to us all.

The Subject of our Letters was, giving an Account of all that passed, either in Parliament, or about the Fleet and Army.

The Accounts of the Fleet my Lord Aylesbury had from Anselm, as he told us, saying, Anselm was out 50 l. a Year in getting those Accounts; and he only desired to be reimbursed his Charge.

The Accounts of the Army Peter Cook brought about a Year ago: He brought me a List of all the Forces, whether at home or abroad; which, he said, he had from Commissary Crawford: I sent it over to King James, inclosing it in a Letter to Mrs. Fox; who writ me Word, it was the best Account he had yet received.

For my own Part, I had no manner of Correspondence with any in the Army: I formerly heard Brigadier Maine swear he would go over to King James when he came into Ireland; but I do not know the Reason why he did not.

I met Lieutenant General Talmache, about a Year before he was killed, as he was lighting out of a Coach at St. James's Gate; he took me into the Court with him, and told me, He hoped he and I should serve together again: where we should serve; and he would be as honest as I was: He did not name K. James, but I understood he meant him.

When any Letters came from France, Lord Ailesbury used to go to Hogsden, and shew the Letters, as he said, to the late Bishop of Norwich: I never saw the Bishop but once, at his House, when I went with Lord Aylesbury, and Lord Montgomery, to make him a Visit.

About Four Years ago, I remember there was a Letter from Melfort, about borrowing 12,000 l. for K. James: We met at the Ship in Fish-street, Lord Ailesbury, Lord Montgomery, Lord Brudenall, and I, to consider it; but we could find no Way to raise any Part of it.

I have heard my Lord Brudenall often say, He had been out of Pocket 6,000 l. for K. James: I do not know, That Lord Brudenall ever writ a Letter; but used to say, He would make his Wife write.

I never received but Two Letters from K. James: And they contained only general Encouragements, and of the King of France his being able to assist him.

Melfort and Caryll who succeeded him, used to write to the same Effect: But, I observed, Caryll never encouraged us to do any thing: He writ to us to sit still and be quiet, and he hoped all would do well.

The last Letter I saw of K. James was to my Lord Ailesbury, of the 4th of February last: All that I remember significant in it was, That the Thoulon Fleet would sail the 22th; and what they would do next, he could not tell.

About Christmas was Two Years, K. James sent us Instructions; which we considered at my House: There were present Lord Aylesbury, Lord Montgomery, Lord Brudenall, and I think, Morley: but I am not sure: Those Instructions were, To have an Account of all Lord Lieutenants, Deputy Lieutenants, Justices of the Peace, and Mayors of Towns, that he thought would be in K. James' Interest: We thought it a strange Demand: We answered, We would do what we could in it; but I do not know any thing that was done.

Archbishop Sandcroft being then dead, we all agreed to write to K. James to make the Bishop of Norwich Archbishop.

Proceedings against Fenwick.

We had another Meeting, in Berkley-street, at Andrew Newport's House; who was himself out of Town, and knew nothing of it; but he lent Lord Ailesbury the Use of his House, and he lay there when his Family was in the Country: At that Meeting was Lord Ailesbury, Lord Montgomery, Mr. Morley, and Peter Cook: And then we sent Fountaine over, with Accounts of Things as they then stood: This was about Three Years ago: He carried over a Paper of Cant Names, to write to us by; Lord Ailesbury's Names were Atkins and Squire; Lord Montgomery was Mun only; my Names were Pheasant and James; Morley was Jenkens; and Cook's Name was Cole; K. James's Names were Harrison and the Figure of 1; the Queen was Mrs. Harrison and my Mother: His Journey cost us 60 l.

Fountaine was desired to ask Places for us; Lord Aylesbury was for having Sir Robert Howard's Place; and Mr. Morley to be a Commissioner of the Treasury; Lord Montgomery proposed nothing for himself; but pressed me to ask the Government of the Tower; which I said I would not ask: We told Cook, He should be the Queen's Secretary; I saw Fountaine when he came back; but I heard nothing of the Granting of any Places.

I know nothing of Fountaine's last going over.

Lord Ailesbury went for France about last Easter was Two Years: He went to give an Account of all Affairs here to K. James, and to see what Hopes there was of his being assisted from France: He told me, at his coming back, That he had been with the King of France in his Closet, and was a good while with him.

It was all along our Opinion, That K. James could not be brought back with less than 30,000 Men: And, I believe, my Lord Ailesbury acquainted the King of France with it: He told me, The King heard him; but I did not find he brought back any Encouragement.

This is the considerable Man I meant in my Paper: And the Persons above-mentioned are the select Number I mentioned in my Paper; but had not named them.

Lord Ailesbury had a Correspondence with the Duc D'Aumont, Governor of Bologne, who sent over one Savery, an Englishman, for Intelligence: He came at that Time when the Mob pulled down the Marshal's House in Holbourne: Peter Cook brought him to me: And we had a Meeting at Lord Montgomery's, about sending him back: There met Lord Ailesbury, Lord Montgomery, Cook, myself, and, I think, Morley: We gave him such Accounts of Affairs, as they then occured to us; and he took Notes of them.

Lord Ailesbury hath writ to Abbé Renandot, who was in Secretary Croisie's Office; and hath received Answers from him; which he interpreted to me; but I cannot remember what it was.

We had another Meeting at Lord Montgomerye's, last Winter was Twelvemonth: There were present Lord Aylesbury, Lord Montgomery, myself, and Mr. Nosworthy, who was then designed for France; but staid some time after, for a Hearing he had before the Lords: He desired to carry over Accounts of the Fleet and Army; and we furnished him with such as we could then give.

I have heard there were other Parties in K. James his Interest; but who met, and what they did, I know not; for we had no Communication one with another: There was a Distinction made between Compounders and Non-compounders; and so we had no Conversation together.

I don't know, that any particular Notice was given from France, at the La Hogue Business, nor any Directions sent at that time: Sacvill, Oglethorpe, Harp, and myself, met at the Fountain in the Haymarket; but all that we considered of was, how to save ourselves from being taken up.

Of this last Preparation at Calais I had not the least Notice or Suspicion of it: I neither saw the Duke of Berwick, or Sir George Barclay, nor heard of their coming over; and don't now know any one they conversed with.

I never was in any Consultation with my Lord Griffin; and heard only accidentally of his Intentions of going over: When he went, I lay ill of a Fever.

This is what I can recollect at present: As any thing more comes into my Memory, I shall readily acquaint the Lords Justices with it: And as to the Matter I am indicted for, if their Excellencies require it, I'll give them as sincere an Account of it as I can.

Fenwick to be brought up in Custody.

Ordered, That Sir John Fenwick be immediately sent for to attend this House: And that Mr. Speaker do issue his Warrant to the Sheriffs of London and Middlesex, and Keeper of the Gaol of Newgate, to bring him; and not to permit any Person to speak with him by the Way, or to give any Paper to him, or receive any Paper from him.

Ordered, That the Lord Cutts, Sir Henry Hobart, and Mr. Norris, do see Sir John Fenwick brought to this House, according to their Order.

And then the House adjourned till Four a Clock in the Afternoon.

Post Meridiem.

Candles.

ORDERED, That Candles be brought in.

Lobby, &c. cleared.

Ordered, That the Lobby, and Speaker's Chambers, be cleared of all Persons, but Members: And that the Back-doors of the Speaker's Chambers be locked up, and the Keys brought and laid upon the Table.

Fenwick to be kept in Serjeant's Room.

Ordered, That after Sir John Fenwick hath been in the House, and withdrawn, he be locked up in the Serjeant's Room: And that no Persons but the Officers be with him there.

Fenwick examined.

The House being informed, That Sir John Fenwick was come;

He was brought in to the Bar: and acquainted, That the House understood he had shewed some Inclinations to make a Discovery of the Practices and Designs of the Enemies of the Government; and that now he had an Opportunity for the same: And they did require him to make a full and ingenuous Discovery to them.

Whereupon, Sir John Fenwick returning such Answers as the House, after being several times called in, conceived to be only Excuses;

He was afterwards called in again, and required, peremptorily to make such Discovery:

Which he refusing to do;

And being again withdrawn;

Resolved, That the Papers read this Morning, as Sir John Fenwick's Informations, reflecting on the Fidelity of several noble Peers, divers Members of this House, and others, only by Hearsay, are false and scandalous, and a Contrivance to undermine the Government, and create Jealousies between the King and his Subjects, in order to stifle the real Conspiracy.

Fenwick's Attainder.

A Motion being made, and the Question being put, That a Bill be brought in to attaint Sir John Fenwick of High Treason;

The House divided.

The Yeas go forth.

So it was resolved in the Affirmative.

Ordered, That Mr. Attorney-General and Mr. Solicitor-General do prepare, and bring in, the Bill.

Ordered, That Sir John Fenwick be remanded to the Prison of Newgate.

And then the House adjourned till To-morrow Morning, Eleven a Clock.