House of Commons Journal Volume 10: 20 February 1692

Sabbati, 20 die Februarii; 4° Gulielmi et Mariæ.

Prayers.

Hildyard's Estate.

AN ingrossed Bill from the Lords, intituled, An Act for the better vesting and settling the Manor of East Horsley in Surry, in Trustees, to be sold for Payment of the Debts of Phillip Hildyard, Esquire, was read the Third time.

Resolved, That the Bill do pass; and the Title . . agreed to.

Ordered, That Major Vincent do carry the Bill to the Lords; and acquaint them, that this House hath agreed to the same, without any Amendments.

St. Paul's Shadwell Waterworks.

An ingrossed Bill from the Lords, intituled, An Act for incorporating the Proprietors of the Waterworks, in the Parish of St. Paul, Shadwell, in the County of Middlesex; and for the encouraging, carrying on, and settling the said Waterworks; was read the Third time.

Resolved, That the Bill do pass: And the Title . . agreed to.

Ordered, That Sir Mathew Andrews do carry the Bill to the Lords; and acquaint them, That this House hath agreed to the same, with some Amendments: To which they desire their Lordships Concurrence.

Lords reminded of of Bills.

Ordered, That a Message be sent to the Lords, to put them in mind of the Bill, intituled, An Act for Relief of Creditors, against fraudulent Devises.

And also of a Bill, intituled, An Act for Relief of Creditors, against fraudulent Mortgages;

And also of a Bill, intituled, An Act for the better preventing malicious Informations, and more easy Reversal of Outlawries in the Court of King's Bench;

And also of the Bill, intituled, An Act for Prevention . . Frauds, by clandestine Mortgages.

Ordered, That Sir Mathew Andrewes do carry the said Message.

Vernon's Estate.

An ingrossed Bill from the Lords, intituled, An Act for the better assuring to George Vernon, and his Heirs and Assigns, Four Acres of Land in the County of Surry, was read the Third time.

Resolved, That the Bill do pass: And the Title . . agreed to.

Ordered, That Sir Richard Onslow do carry the Bill to the Lords; and acquaint them, That this House hath agreed to the same, without any Amendments.

Halford's Estate.

An ingrossed Bill from the Lords, intituled, An Act to vest divers Manors, Lands, and Tenements, in the County of Leicester, in Trustees, to be sold for the Payment of the Debts and Legacies of Sir William Halford, Knight, deceased, and for the Payment of the other Debts of Sir William Halford, now living, prior to his Marriage Settlement with the Lady Frances his now Wife, was read the Third time.

Resolved, That the Bill do pass: And the Title . . agreed to.

Ordered, That Sir Samuell Barnardiston do carry the Bill to the Lords; and acquaint them, That this House hath agreed to the same, with some Amendments: To which they desire their Lordships Concurrence.

A Message from the Lords, by Sir Myles Cooke and Sir Lacon Wm. Child;

Pelham's Estate.

Mr. Speaker, The Lords have agreed to the Amendments made by this House to the Bill, intituled, An Act for securing, out of some of the Manors, Lands, Tenements, and Hereditaments of Charles Pelham, of Brockelsby in the County of Lincolne, Esquire, the Sum of Five thousand Pounds, with Interest, unto Anne Pelham, eldest Daughter of the said Charles;

Selling Lands in Lincolne, &c.

And also to the Amendments made by this House to the Bill, intituled, An Act for vesting several Manors, Lands, and Rents, in the Counties of Lincolne, Berkes, and Devon, in Trustees, to be sold for the buying other Manors and Lands, to be settled for the same, or the like Uses, as those to be sold are now settled.

Supply Bill; Duties on Low Wines.

Also the Lords have agreed to the Bill, intituled, An Act for the better ordering and collecting the Duty upon Low Wines and Strong Waters, and for preventing the Abuses therein; without any Amendments.

And then the Messengers withdrew.

Brewers not to be Maltsters.

An ingrossed Bill for disabling Brewers to be Maltsters, was read the Third time.

And the Question being put, That the Bill do pass;

It passed in the Negative.

Persons to attend.

Mr. Speaker acquaints the House, That he had received a Letter from Mr. Fuller, in the King's Bench, dated the Nineteenth February instant; desiring, That an Order of this House may be granted for him, and the Gentlemen he formerly mentioned, to attend this House.

Which Letter was read.

Ordered, That the Marshal of the King's Bench do bring Mr. Fuller to the Bar of this House, upon Monday Morning next.

Ordered, That the Persons, mentioned by Mr. Fuller, do then also attend with Mr. Fuller: And that they be under the Protection of this House.

Conference on Bill for Recovery of Tythes.

Mr. Clerke reports, That the Members appointed had prepared Reasons to be offered at a Conference with the Lords, touching the Amendments, made by their Lordships, to the Bill, intituled, An Act for the more speedy and easy Recovery of small Tythes; which they had directed him to report to the House: And . . . . he read in his Place; and afterwards delivered in at the Clerk's Table: Where the same were read, and agreed unto by the House; and are as followeth; viz.

The Commons disagree to the Clause, marked X, sent down by the Lords;

I. For that, by the Act, where the Proceeding is before the Justices, there is an Appeal given to the Sessions: But, by this Clause, the Sentence of the Ecclesiastical Judge is made final, though the Proceedings are to be summary, and may be determined ex parte, in case of Default of Appearance.

II. For that, by the Act, the Justices, in the first Instance, or even the Sessions, upon the Appeal, if any Prescription, Composition, Modus decimandi, Agreement, or Title, be insisted on, ought not to proceed to Judgment. But this Clause makes no Provision in such Case: So that the Ecclesiastical Judge may give Sentence in this summary Way against legal Titles; and the Party is for ever concluded, and without Remedy by Appeal.

III. For that this Clause subjects the Estates of the Subjects of this Realm to Executions, upon Sentences given by Ecclesiastical Judges; which is what our Ancestors have never yielded to: And, if it were ever to be suffered, the Commons think it very improper to begin it in Cases where the Proceedings are to be summary; where the Evidence, on which the Sentence . . founded, is not to appear in Writing; and where the Sentence is final in the first Instance.

IV. For that it makes the Justices of Peace, who, by the Law, are Judges, in Cases which come before them, to be mere ministerial Officers to the Ecclesiastical Judges; which the Commons think to be improper, and a Diminution of their Character; and apprehend, that it will be great Discouragement to Gentlemen, to undertake to serve the Crown, and their Country, in that Quality, if it shall be in the Power of every Official Surrogate, or Judge of a Peculiar, to require them to execute their Sentences, and to grant Warrants to distrain and sell their Neighbours Goods.

V. For that the Bill makes the Justices to be Judges, in Cases of small Tythes; and it seems very incongruous, by the same Act, to make them ministerial Officers, to execute the Sentences of other Courts in the same Matters, in which they themselves have a Jurisdiction; and it may fall out, that if the Vicar complains to the Justices against one Parishioner, and to the Ecclesiastical Judge against another, the Justices may, at the same time, be issuing out Warrants for Executing of different Sentences upon the same Question.

VI. For that the Clause appoints, That if the Ecclesiastical Judge proceed otherwise than summarily, then the Suit is, and shall be, dismissed from the Ecclesiastical Court, with Costs: Yet there is no Provision, Who shall dismiss that Suit; nor what the Costs shall be; nor how the same shall be recovered; nor who shall pay them; whether the Party, or the Ecclesiastical Judge, who seems to be the Offender.

VII. That the Commons cannot agree to add the Words "Ecclesiastical Judges," in the 12th Line of the 4th Press; nor to the like Amendments in other Places, to the End of the Bill; because, in all the preceding Enacting Clauses, there is no Mention made of any Ecclesiastical Judge; but it is left solely to the Determination of the Justices of the Peace; and the Addition of "Ecclesiastical Judge" afterwards, would make the latter Part incoherent, if not contradictory, to the former Part of the Bill.

Ordered, That a Message be sent to the Lords, to desire a Conference with their Lordships touching the said Amendments.

Ordered, That Mr. Clarke do go with the said Message.

London Orphans.

A Motion being made, and the Question being put, That the ingrossed Bill from the Lords, intituled, An Act for the Relief of the distressed Orphans of the City of London, be now read the Second time;

The House divided.

The Yeas go forth.

So it passed in the Negative.

Corresponding with their Majesties Enemies.

Then the House, according to the Order of the Day, resolved itself into a Committee of the whole House, to consider of the ingrossed Bill from the Lords, intituled, An Act against corresponding with their Majesties Enemies.

Mr. Speaker left the Chair.

Mr. Speaker resumed the Chair.

Ordered, That Mr. Serjeant Trenchard do take the Chair of the said Committee.

Mr. Speaker left the Chair.

Mr. Serjeant Trenchard took the Chair of the Committee.

Mr. Speaker resumed the Chair.

Mr. Serjeant Trenchard reports from the said Committee, That they had agreed upon some Amendments to be made to the Bill: Which they had directed him to report to the House: And he read the same in his Place, with the Coherence; and afterwards delivered the same in at the Clerk's Table: Where the same were once read throughout; and are as followeth; viz.

Pr. 2, L. 11, leave out "First," and insert "Tenth;" and leave out "February," and insert "March."

At the End of the Bill, add "for any Time not exceeding Twelve Months."

The said Amendments were severally read a Second time; and, upon the Question severally put, agreed unto by the House.

Resolved, That the Bill be now read the Third time.

It was read the Third time.

Resolved, That the Bill do pass: And the Title . . agreed to.

Ordered, That Mr. Serjeant Trenchard do carry the Bill to the Lords; and acquaint them, That this House hath agreed to the same, with some Amendments; to which they desire their Lordships Concurrence.

Recovery of Tythes.

Mr. Clarke acquaints the House, That he had, according to their Order, been with the Lords, to desire a Conference with the Lords, upon the Amendments made by their Lordships to the Bill, intituled, An Act for the more speedy and easy Recovery of small Tythes: And that the Lords do agree to a Conference upon Monday Morning next, at Eleven a Clock, in the Painted Chamber.

And then the House adjourned till Monday Morning, Eight a Clock.