House of Commons Journal Volume 10: 12 June 1689

Mercurii, 12 die Junii ; 1° Willielmi et Mariæ.

Prayers.

Speake's Prosecution.

ORDERED, That the Committee, to whom the Petition of Mr. Speake, was referred, be revived; so as to proceed upon the several Petitions referred thereto: And that Mr. Laughton, Mr. Fuller, Mr. Thompson, Mr. Ellwell, Mr. Brewer, be added to the said Committee.

Leave for Member to attend Lords.

Ordered, That Mr. Finch have Leave to attend the House of Lords, as Counsel in a Cause between * *.

Earl of Peterborow's Estate.

An ingrossed Bill, sent down from the Lords, intituled, An Act to make good a Recovery suffered by the Earl of Peterborow and Lord Mordant, was read the First time.

Resolved, That the Bill be read a Second time.

Leave of Absence.

Ordered, That Sir Wm. Langham have Leave to go into the Country, for Three Weeks.

Lords Amendments to Lord Chancellorship Bill.

Sir Wm. Poultney reports from the Committee to whom it was referred, to prepare Reasons to be offered at a Conference with the Lords, why this House doth not agree with the Lords touching the Amendments to the Bill for enabling Lords Commissioners of the Great Seal to execute the Office of Lord Chancellor or Lord Keeper, That they had prepared and agreed upon Reasons accordingly: Which he read in his Place; and afterwards delivered the same in at the Clerk's Table: Where the same were read Once throughout; and afterwards, a Second time, one by one; and, upon the Question severally put thereupon, agreed unto by the House; and are as followeth; viz.

L. 70, The Commons insist upon their Amendment;

Because, as they conceive, it will be no Precedent (as is supposed by their Lordships) to give Place to all other Persons, who are or shall be Commissioners for executing all other great Offices, as the Treasurer, Admiralty, &c. who have no Badges of State borne by or before them, and consequently not within the Reason of the Commons Amendments.

Secondly, The Great Seal always hath been, and ought to be, near the Person of the King.

L. 71, The Commons insist upon this Amendment;

Because this Proviso restrains his Majesty's undoubted Prerogative in ordering and disposing the Great Seal according to such Methods as to his Majesty shall seem meet; and not to be obliged, that One Commissioner, in the Absence of the others, may have Motions, and give Orders, touching interlocutory Proceedings in any Case; or, that one Commissioner shall not put the Great Seal to any thing whatsoever, but that there must be Two Commissioners present: Both which Restrictions may be very inconvenient to the Subject, and derogatory to the Prerogative.

Clause A, L. 2, The Commons cannot agree to your Lordships Amendment in the Clause A, which is, after "Rotulorum" in the Second Line, to leave out "shall," in the Fifth Line;

Because the Bill will then take away the Right of several Persons who have, or may have, several Grants in the said Offices of Custos Rotulorum, or Clerkship of the Peace, by Letters Patents. And it has always been the Care of all Acts of Parliament, which concern the Custos Rotulorum, or Clerkship of the Peace by . . ., especially the Act of 31° H. VIII°. Cap. 1, which this Bill revives, to preserve the Rights of the Subjects, if they have any; and, in Effect, it is but a Salvo Jure to him who hath a just Right.

L. 20, The Commons cannot agree to your Lordships other Amendment in the Clause A, L. 20;

Because there are many Things in the Clause left out fit to be retained; as "That the Clerk of the Peace should be residing in the County, Place, or Division, where he is Clerk of the Peace;" which will be very necessary.

Secondly, The Justices of the Peace, in Case of Removal of a Clerk of the Peace for Misdemeanor; and in case the Custos Rotulorum, or to whom of Right it doth belong to nominate the Clerk of the Peace, shall make Default in not putting in another sufficient Clerk of the Peace, before the next Quarter Sessions after such Removal; then, in such Cases, the Justices of the Peace may nominate another sufficient Clerk of the Peace, residing as aforesaid, and to be liable to the Penalties therein mentioned; to the Intent, there may be no Failure of Justice: And the Commons conceive there needs no Notice to be given to the Custos Rotulorum, because he is supposed to be always present at the Sessions.

Thirdly, The Commons cannot agree, to insert the Clause offered by your Lordships to the Clause A;

Because it doth not make the Misdemeanor of the Clerk of the Peace to relate to his Office.

Secondly, The Conviction mentioned in your Lordships Amendment is, by Two or more credible Witness upon Oath; whereas the only particular Misdemeanor specified in the said Amendment is, by oppressing the People by exacting undue Fees; so that, in such Case, One Witness upon Oath ought to be sufficient; for in Possibility there cannot be more.

The Commons cannot agree to leave out the Clause C;

Because the Clerk of the Peace, for the Duchy and County Palatine of Lancaster, holds the said Office for Lives, by Patent granted by King Charles the Second, under the Seal of the Duchy and County Palatine of Lancaster: And in all Acts, concerning the Custos Rotulorum, or Clerk of the Peace, there hath been a particular saving of his Right.

Secondly, The Possessions of the said Duchy are severed from the Crown; and it may be very prejudicial to the Crown, if they should be united in this Case.

The Commons consider also, That your Lordships Reason makes for them; for, if the Grant be good, this Act destroys it; and, if it is not good, this Clause doth not make it better.

The Commons cannot agree to the last Amendment, to leave out the Words "This Act to commence from the First Day of May 1689;"

Because the Bill will then relate to the First Day . .the Sessions of Parliament; so that if any Clerk of the Peace have taken upon him the Execution of the said Office, without taking the Oath directed in this Bill, he would break the Law, before he could possibly know it: And if he hath given any Sum of Money, or other Reward, for the said Office, he will thereby incur the new Forfeitures appointed by this retrospecting Act.

And though your Lordships, in your Reason, . . . That the Commons Amendments will destroy some Parts of the Body of the Bill; but wherein, your Lordships have not given any particular Instance.

Penwarne's Estate.

Sir Walter Moylereports from the Committee, to whom the ingrossed Bill, sent down from the Lords, intituled, An Act to enable Robert Penwarne to sell Lands, to pay his Brothers and Sisters Portions, and also to pay Debts, was referred; That they had agreed upon several Amendments to be made to the Bill: Which he read in his Place; and afterwards delivered the same in at the Clerk's Table: Where the same were once read throughout; and afterwards, a Second time, one by one; and, upon the Question severally put thereupon, agreed unto by the House: And are as followeth:

Press 1, L. 40, after the Word "of," and before the Word "the," leave out the Words "a Fourth Part of," and, instead thereof, insert the Words "Four Parts."

P. 3, L. 36, after the Word "of," and before the Word "the," in the 37th Line, leave out the Words, "a Fourth Part;" and, instead thereof, insert the Words, "Four Parts."

P. 4, L. 17, after the Word "said," and before the Word "and," leave out the Word "Brothers;" and, instead thereof, insert the Word "Brother."

P. 5, L. 3, after the Word "his," and before the Word "Parts," leave out the Word "Fourth;" and, instead thereof, insert the Word "Four."

Resolved, That the Bill be now read the Third time.

The Bill was read the Third time.

Resolved, That the Bill, so amended, do pass.

Ordered, That Sir Walter Moyle do carry up the Bill to the Lords, and desire their Concurrence to the said Amendments.

Regulating Elections.

A Bill for Regulation of Elections, was read the First time.

Resolved, That the Bill be read a Second time on Friday Morning next.

Westminster, &c. Courts of Conscience.

Ordered, That the Report from the Committee, to whom the Bill for establishing Courts of Conscience for the Borough of Southwarke, City of Westminster, Tower Hamlets, and other Out Parishes, be made This-day-sevennight.

Journals relating to Popish Plot.

The Order of Yesterday, for reading the Journals relating to the Popish Plot, was read.

Ordered, That the Serjeant at Arms do go into Westminster Hall; and require all the Members there to attend the Service of the House.

Resolved, That a Committee be appointed to inspect the Journals of the House, in and since October 1678, relating to the Popish Plot; and to report an Abstract of the Proceedings thereupon; and also to examine what Alterations have been made in the Journals; and report the same.

And it is referred unto Lord Falkland, Mr. Attorney General, Mr. Sacheverell, Mr. Bickerstaffe, Sir Wm. Williams, Sir Cha. Raleigh, Mr. Christy, Sir Jo. Mompesson, Sir Tho. Clarges, Mr. Papillion, Sir Rich. Middleton, Mr. Hamden jun. Mr. Burrard, Sir Hen. Capell, Sir Tho. Littleton, Mr. Pierpoint, Sir John Trevor, Mr. Buscowen, Lord Digby, Sir John Wyn, Mr. Fenwick, Mr. Ellwell, Sir Robert Clayton, Marquis Winchester, Mr. Dolben, Mr. P. Foley, Mr. Hamden, Sir Jos. Tredenham, Mr. How, Mr. Palmes, Mr. Colt, Major Wildman, Sir Thomas Lee, Mr.Smith, Sir Scroope How, Mr. Gwyn, Sir Wm. Strickland, Colonel Birch, Sir Matth. Andrewes, Mr. White, Sir John Cotton, Mr. Anth. Grey, Sir Ralph Dutton: And they are to meet this Afternoon, at Four of the Clock in the Speaker's Chamber: And have Power to send for Persons, Papers, and Records.

Ordered, That some Persons be appointed to inspect the Journals of the House of Lords relating to the Popish Plot; and report the same to the House.

And it is referred to Mr. Sacheverell, Mr. Solicitor General, Mr. Howard, Mr. Hawles, Colonel Mildmay, Mr. Hamden jun. Sir Thomas Lee, Mr. Blake, Sir Ralph Dutton, Mr. Arnold, Major Manley.

Droitwich Salt Works.

A Message from the Lords, by Sir Miles Cooke and Mr. Kecke.

Mr. Speaker, The Lords have passed a Bill, intituled, An Act for the better regulating the Salt Works in Droitwich; to which they desire the Concurrence of this House.

And then the Messengers withdrew.

Bill of Indemnity.

The House then proceeded upon the Consideration of the Heads for the Bill of Indemnity.

The Letter from his Majesty, when Prince of Orange, was read; dated the 22January 1688.

His Majesty's Message of 25 March 1689, was read.

The Prince of Orange's Declaration was read.

Then the First Head of the Exceptions in the Bill of Indemnity was read.

The Record of Pasch. 2 Jac. II. between Godwyn and Hales, was read.

And a Debate arising thereupon, Whether a Committee shall be appointed to examine who were concerned in the several Heads of Exceptions;

The Question was put, That a Committee be appointed to examine who are concerned in the several Heads of Exceptions in the Bill of Indemnity.

The previous Question was put, That that Question be now put;

And it was resolved in the Affirmative.

And the main Question being put;

It passed in the Negative.

Resolved, That the Debate, upon the said First Head of Exception, be adjourned until To-morrow Morning Ten of the Clock.

And then the House adjourned till To-morrow Morning, Nine of the Clock.