House of Commons Journal Volume 10: 27 May 1689

Lunæ, 27 die Maii ; 1° Willielmi et Mariæ.

Prayers.

Multiplying Gold and Silver.

A BILL to repeal the Statute of the 5°Hen. IV. against multiplying Gold and Silver, was read the First time.

Resolved, That the Bill be read a Second time.

Fitzharris' Case.

Ordered, That Major Vincent, Mr. Blake, Colonel Tipping, Sir John Knatchbull, Mr. Cooke, Mr. Paul Foley, be added to the Committee appointed to examine the Case of Mrs. Fitzharris; and to report the same to the House.

Speake's Prosecution.

A Petition of George Speake of White Lackington in the County of Someret, Esquire, was read; setting forth, That he being, about Four Years since, accused for several treasonable Practices, an Information was preferred by Mr. Burton and Mr. Graham in Michaelmas Term 1685, against him; to which he pleaded Not-guilty: And that, after Issue was joined, and entered upon the Roll, in order to a Trial, they, finding several Mistakes, persuaded Justice Holloway to give an Order in his Chamber, in the Vacation time, without Rule of Court, or Consent, that the Clerk of the Crown should alter the Record in several Things, contrary to Law, and Practice of the Court: And that, thereupon, the Petitioner was tried, and convicted, and fined Two thousand Marks: And that Mr. Burton and Mr. Graham, and their Agents, designing to extort a greater Sum, procured some indigent Person, by Menaces of taking away their Lives, and by Promises of great Rewards, to swear against his Wife: And that, thereupon, a Bill of High Treason was found against her: And afterwards, upon a Proposition of Payment of Five thousand Pounds for the King's Pardon for the Petitioner, and Family; and, if refused, Threats of His being indicted also; the Petitioner thought fit to pay the Five thousand Pounds; All which were, to the Petitioner's Damage, above Ten thousand Pounds: And praying the Consideration of the House, and Relief therein.

Ordered, That it be referred to the Committee to whom the former Petition of the said Mr. Speake was referred: And that Sir John Austen, and Mr. Parker, be added to the said Committee.

Soley's Estate.

An ingrossed Bill to enable * Hill to sell Lands, was read the Third time.

An Amendment being proposed to be made in the Bill, by inserting the Word "aforesaid," in P. * L. *, after the Word "*;" the same was, upon the Question put thereupon, agreed to by the House.

Resolved, That the Bill do pass: And that the Title be, An Act for the better assuring the Manor of Silton, and divers other Lands and Tenements in Silton in the County of Salop, unto Joseph Soley, Gentleman, and his Heirs.

Ordered, That Mr. Baldwin do carry up the Bill to the Lords, for their Concurrence.

Prosecution of Citizens of London, 1682.

A Petition of certain Citizens of London, on the Behalf of themselves and others, convicted of a Riot, and fined unreasonably for the same, was read; setting forth, That, upon Trial of an Information against the Petitioners, and other Citizens, for a pretended Riot, committed the Twenty-fourth of June 1682, at Guildhall, London, in the Election of Sheriffs, That the late Lord Chief Justice Saunders, before whom the Cause was tried, denied the Petitioners their Challenges to the Array, one . . . whereof . . . Sir Dudley North and Sir Peter Rich were not Sheriffs, who impannelled the Jury; and that the said Chief Justice refused to seal a Bill of Exception; by which undue means, the Defendants were found Guilty: That after the Verdict, Sir Thomas Jones, Sir Thomas Raymand, and Sir Francis Withens, rejected a Motion made by the Petitioners Counsel, for filing a Postea in the same Cause, which had been concealed by Mr. Ward of the Crown Office; which Postea would have discharged the said Verdict: That the Petitioners, with other Defendants, in Trinity Term 1683, Chief Justice Saunders being dead, was, by the said Three Judges, unreasonably fined; and, by Imprisonment, forced to pay the same: That, forasmuch as the said Proceedings are grievous to the Petitioners, and relievable only in Parliament, and praying Redress in the Premises.

Ordered, That it be referred to the Committee to whom the Petition of * Wilmore is referred; to examine the Matter of the said Petition; and report the same to the House.

Leave of Absence.

Ordered, That Mr. Jervois have Leave to go into the Country, for Three Weeks.

Ordered, That Mr. Hillersdon have Leave to go into the Country, for a Fortnight.

Ordered, That Mr. Bull have Leave to go into the Country, for a Month.

Enabling Commissioners of Great Seal to execute Lord Chancellorship.

Sir William Poultney reports from the Conference with the Lords, touching the Amendments proposed by the House to be made to the ingrossed Bill, sent down from the Lords, intituled, An Act for enabling Lords Commissioners for the Great Seal to execute the Office of Lord Chancellor or Lord Keeper, That the Lord Cornwallis managed the Conference for the Lords; and said, the Lords do agree to some of the said Amendments, with some Amendments of theirs thereto; to which their Lordships desire the Concurrence of this House: And that as to other of the said Amendments, they do not agree; and gave their Reasons for the same: And, thereupon, Sir William Poultney read the said Amendments, with the Coherence; and acquainted the House with the said Reasons: And are as follow; viz.

1 Press, L. 39, the Commons Amendments does not cohere, unless the Word "Commissioners" be left out of the 40th Line.

46 L. the Bill, as it is amended by the Commons, does not cohere, without leaving out the Word "that," in their Amendment; and the Words "to have, use, and execute," in the 56th Line of the Bill.

70 L. this Amendment not agreed to, because it will be a Precedent to give Place to all Persons, who are, or shall be, Commissioners for executing all other great Offices, how numerous soever.

71. L. not agreed to leave out the Proviso, because, by leaving out this Clause, every single Commissioner will have Power to apply the Great Seal, in as full a Manner, as if he were Chancellor or Lord Keeper. And, if they should not singly assume such Power, it will be very inconvenient to the Commissioners, not to have Power singly to hear Interlocutory Motions.

81 L. not agreed to leave out this Clause, because the Lords think the Nomination of the Custos Rotulorum ought rather to be in the King, than any Subject.

Agreed to add the Clause [A], with the Amendments following; viz.

2 L. after "Rotulorum," leave out to "shall," in the 5th Line.

20 after "Office," leave out to the End of the Clause; and insert "by doing any thing that is, or shall be, contrary to the Laws, or shall oppress the People, by exacting undue Fees, or otherwise, upon due Conviction thereof, by Two or more credible Witnesses upon Oath, before the Justices of the Peace at the Quarter Sessions, it shall and may be lawful, for the Justices of the Peace in the Quarter Sessions, or the major Part of them, to displace the said Clerk of the Peace, upon giving Notice thereof to the Custos Rotulorum."

The Lords do not agree to add the Clause [C];

Because, if the Grants from his late Majesty King Charles the Second be good Grants, this Bill will not affect them; and, if they be not good, the Lords do not think fit to strengthen them by a Law.

The Lords do not agree to add "this Act to commence from the First Day of May 1689;" because this Clause will destroy some Part of the Body of the Bill.

The Lords Amendments of the said Amendments were Thrice read; and, upon the Question severally put thereupon, agreed unto by the House.

The Question being put, That the House doth agree with the Lords, touching the Amendments, L. 70:

It passed in the Negative.

The Question being put, That the House doth agree with the Lords, touching the Amendment, Line 71;

It passed in the Negative.

The Question being put, That the House do agree with the Lords, touching the Amendment, L. 81;

The House divided.

The Yeas go forth.

So it was resolved in the Affirmative.

The several Amendments, proposed by the Lords to the Clause [A], were Once read throughout; and afterwards one by one: And,

The Question being severally put thereupon, That the House do agree with the Lords therein;

It passed in the Negative.

The Question being put, That the House do agree with the Lords, not to add the Clause [C];

It passed in the Negative.

The Question being put, That the House do agree with the Lords, not to add the Words, "this Act to commence from the First Day of May 1689;"

It passed in the Negative.

Ordered, That it be referred to the Committee, to whom the Bill was committed, to prepare Reasons to be offered at a Conference, why this House doth not agree with the Lords in the said Amendments.

Suspending Habeas Corpus.

A Message from the Lords, by Sir Miles Cooke and Sir Robert Legard;

Mr. Speaker, We are commanded by the Lords to acquaint this House, that they have passed the Bill, intituled, An Act to impower their Majesties to commit, without Bail, such Persons as they shall find just Cause to suspect are conspiring against the Government, without any Alteration.

And then the Messengers withdrew.

Conference with Lords; Poll Tax.

A Message from the Lords, by Mr. Justice Eyres and Mr. Baron Turton;

Mr. Speaker, The Lords desire a present Conference with this House, in the Painted Chamber, upon the Subject Matter of the last Conference upon the additional Poll Bill.

And then the Messengers withdrew.

Resolved, That this House do agree to a present Conference with the Lords, as desired.

And the Messengers being called in again; Mr. Speaker acquainted them therewith.

Resolved, That the Persons who managed the last Conference, do manage this Conference.

Ordered, That Mr. Finch be added to them.

The Managers went to the Conference accordingly: And being returned;

Mr. Hamden reports from the Conference, That the Managers had attended the Lords; that the Lord Huntington managed the Conference; and said, That the Lords insisted upon their Amendments; and gave their Reasons for the same, as followeth; viz.

1. That it is the common course of Parliaments to pass explanatory Acts of any thing that has been omitted, or ill expressed, in any other Act passed in the same Session: And One of that Sort has passed in this present Session.

2. That the House of Commons have, in this Bill, taken care of the Serjeants Inn, and the Inns of Court and Chancery, that they should be rated by their own Members; and that, since there is no Comparison to be made between them and the Peers of England, therefore the Peers ought to be rated by none but those which are of their own House.

3. That the House of Peers, out of their extraordinary Zeal for the Reducing of Ireland, (the Poll Bill coming up so late to them from the House of Commons, that they had not so much time to deliberate upon every Part of it, as had been necessary, if so pressing an Occasion would have allowed it) did make this Omission: Which, for that Reason, ought not to turn to their Prejudice; it being their undoubted Right, which has been preserved in all former Poll Bills; and particularly, in the last, which was passed in the Twenty-ninth Year of King Charles the Second; the Proviso of that Bill being conceived in the same Terms with the Proviso now offered.

A Debate arising in the House thereupon;

Resolved, That the Debate be adjourned till To-morrow Morning.

Supply Bill Ground Rents.

A Bill for laying a Tax upon Ground Rents, upon new Foundations, was read the First time.

Resolved, That the Bill be read a Second time on Friday next.

Supply Bill; Land Tax.

Ordered, That the Bill for granting a Subsidy to their Majesties be read a Second time To-morrow Morning, at Ten of the Clock.

Arundell Building Grounds.

Ordered, That Sir Rich. Onslow, Mr. Knevet, Major Wildman, be added to the Committee, to whom the ingrossed Bill sent down from the Lords, intituled, An Act for building into Tenements the remaining Part of Arundell Grounds, as now inclosed.

Bill of Indemnity.

Resolved, That the House do, upon Wednesday Morning next, proceed in the further Consideration of the Heads for the Bill of Indemnity.

Irish Protestants.

Ordered, That the Report, from the Committee appointed to prepare an Address concerning the Irish Protestants, be made To-morrow Morning, at the First Sitting.

Committees.

Ordered, That all Committees be revived.

And then the House adjourned till To-morrow Morning, Nine of the Clock.