Venice: November 1525 | British History Online

Calendar of State Papers Relating To English Affairs in the Archives of Venice, Volume 3, 1520-1526. Originally published by Her Majesty's Stationery Office, London, 1869.

Citation:

'Venice: November 1525', in Calendar of State Papers Relating To English Affairs in the Archives of Venice, Volume 3, 1520-1526, ed. Rawdon Brown( London, 1869), British History Online https://prod.british-history.ac.uk/cal-state-papers/venice/vol3/pp500-506 [accessed 25 November 2024].

November 1525



Nov. 1. Sanuto Diaries, v. xl. p. 146.	1158. The Same to the Same.
	The Pope told him he had given audience to Sir Gregory Casal, the English ambassador, who stated that he had been at Lyons, and in his King's name exhorted the Regent to make the league with Italy. She expressed her willingness to do so on certain conditions. Casal said his King would join the league, but insists on a pension from the kingdom of Naples. Should the present Duke remain in possession of the Milanese, the King demands an annual tribute of 100,000 ducats and France 50,000. The Archbishop of Capua [Schomberg] said to him (Foscari) that it would be well to write to the Emperor to put another Duke in Milan, and that if Italy wished the present Duke to remain, she must give his Majesty a million of gold.
	Rome, 1st November. Registered by Sanuto on the 2 nd.
	[Italian.]
Nov. 3. Sanuto Diaries, v. xl. p. 261.	1159. Lorenzo Orio to the Doge and Signory.
	Letters from France, dated 17th October, announce the failure of the Duchess of Alençon's negotiations with the Emperor, because the most Christian King will not accede to his demands, and his Majesty has written to the Regent to conclude the league.
	[London], 3rd November. Registered by Sanuto on the 24th.
	[Italian.]
Nov. 3. Sanuto Diaries, v. xl. p. 160.	1160. Marco Foscari to the Doge and Signory.
	Conversed with the Papal Auditor, the English envoy, who told him his King was excellently disposed towards the affairs of Italy, and would aid the league, which ought to be concluded, but his Majesty requires an acknowledgment of 100,000 ducats from Italy, and Madame the Regent demands 50,000 on the Milanese. The Papal Auditor also said that his colleague, Sir Gregory Casal, who was charged with this business, had been at Lyons, that his King and the Cardinal were well disposed, and that he (Ghinucci) understood the Emperor had remitted 200,000 ducats to Italy. He vastly praised the Signory's ambassador in England, Lorenzo Orio, who, he said, enjoyed very great favour with the King and Cardinal.
	Rome, 3rd November. Registered by Sanuto, 7th November.
	[Italian.]
Nov. 4. Deliberazioni Senato Secreta, v. 1. p. 168, tergo.	1161. The Doge and Senate to Lorenzo Orio, Ambassador in England.
	The Marquis del Guasto, with a good number of men-at-arms and infantry, passed into the Ghiara d'Adda, and quartered thereabouts. Subsequently, on the 2nd instant, the Marquis of Pescara quitted Pavia, and entered Milan in the evening with 200 spears, a good number of light horse, 3,000 foot, and 18 pieces of artillery. He sent immediately to tell the Duke that he was come to take the city and castle in the Emperor's name. To announce this intelligence immediately to the King and Cardinal, to whom it will prove unexpected. To request the aforesaid King and Cardinal, with their usual wisdom, to consider the great importance of the present Spanish movements, and apply such remedies as shall seem lit to their prudence and experience.
	Ayes, 175. Noes, 1. Neutrals, 0.
	[Italian.]
Nov. 4. Cicogna copy of the Navagero Despatches.	1162. Andrea Navagero to the Signory.
	The Chancellor told him yesterday that the Signory was agreed with France and England, that they were fortifying themselves and raising troops, were expecting the Duke Maximilian [Sforza], and would not come to terms with the Emperor. The causes of this suspicion are as follows: the malady of the Duke of Milan [Francesco Sforza]; and the report, confirmed by letters from Italy, that should he die the Italians would not have any other Duke than Maximilian, and that Hironimo Morone was negotiating his [Maximilian's] removal from France and establishment in the duchy, with the favour of the Switzers and the Signory. Although the Duke Francesco is now well the report does not cease, especially as it is also said that Venice has joined the league with France and England.
	Toledo, 4th November 1525.
	[Italian.]
Nov. 7. Sanuto Diaries, v. xl. p. 261.	1163. Lorenzo Orio to the Doge and Signory.
	Sent his secretary, Gasparo Spinelli, to the Cardinal for news. The Cardinal said that Giovanni Gioachino had announced to him the receipt of letters from France, dated 17th October, that the agreement with the Emperor would not take place, and the King has written that they must negotiate the league. The Cardinal told him to write to the Signory to negotiate the defensive league with France, because the Emperor purposes making himself monarch [of the universe], and the Pope is timid; and the State should no longer refrain from concluding it, as, after taking Milan, the Emperor will choose to have the Signory's towns, and Padua and Venice. The Cardinal used strong language, and said he had written to the Regent in France to conclude the league. The secretary thanked his Lordship, who then told him that the Duke of Bourbon had departed for Spain, with a fleet of 18 galleys, namely, 11 belonging to the Emperor, three to the Order of Rhodes, and four to the Pope, and with two barks. This fleet the Emperor may detain, reinforce, and proceed with to Italy. The secretary then complained that a Ragusan ship, hired in the Thames by the merchants of Venice, had been well nigh captured by four French vessels, so it was compelled to put back and discontinue the voyage. The Cardinal spoke wrathfully about this to Giovanni Gioachino, saying it was not according to the agreement in negotiation between France and England, and therefore orders must be given for secure navigation in those seas. Giovanni Gioachino replied that he would write to France so that the navigation may be free.
	The Prothonotary Casal writes from Rome, in date of the 23rd, concerning church benefices, but says nothing about the capture of Morone.
	Sir Gregory Casal writes from Lyons on the 12th, that the conclusion of the league with Italy was in a fair way, and Madame the Regent was sending a commission to the Bishop of Bayeux to stipulate it. The Duke of Ferrara would not go to Spain.
	[London], 7th November. Registered by Sanuto on the 24th.
	Note by Sanuto. —According to the letter from England detailing Orio's conversation with the King, his Majesty said, “Beware lest the Signory give money to the Emperor, as he would wage war upon you with it; and be careful not to make a league, most especially with France, unless all promise, for it happened to me to make a league with France against the Emperor, for which I spent money, and the King of France did nothing.”
	[Italian.]
Nov. 8. Sanuto Diaries, v. xl. p. 170.	1164. Motions concerning England made in the Senate.
	Motion for a letter to the ambassador in London, commending his proceedings, and the sayings of Cardinal Wolsey, because the Imperialists purpose seizing the Milanese; informing the ambassador also that the Marquis of Pescara has demanded the castles of Milan and Cremona. The letter to be antedated 4th November.
	Also that a second letter be written in date of today, acquainting the ambassador with the proposals made by the Marquis of Pescara to the Duke for the surrender of the castles, and directing him to urge the King] to make provision, as the Emperor is determined to make himself master of the Milanese, and then of all Italy; nor can Venice alone prevent him.
	Ballot for the two letters.
	Noes, 5. The rest ayes.
	[Italian.]
Nov. 8. Deliberazioni Senato Secreta, v. 1. p. 169, tergo.	1165. The Doge and Senate to Lorenzo Orio, Ambassador in England.
	Regret the suspense in which the Cardinal and the ambassador were kept by the delay to which their despatches were subjected, although no opportunity for forwarding them by way of France, Germany, and Rome was neglected.
	Gratified to learn that Cardinal Wolsey shows himself daily more and more inclined towards the maintenance and liberty of Italy and well affected towards the interests of the State.
	To thank the Cardinal, Beseech his Lordship to persevere in his beneficial purpose, especially since these most important movements of the Imperialists in the Milanese.
	Enclose copy of the reply made to the Imperial ambassadors, in the name of the Senate, concerning the three articles proposed by them.
	Ayes, 175. Noe, 1. Neutrals, 0.
	[Italian.]
Nov. 8. Navagero Despatches, Cicogna copy.	1166. Andrea Navagero to the Signory.
	Went yesterday to the English ambassadors, and executed the commission in the Signory's letter of the 30th September. They thanked the State greatly, and said they would write to the King and to the Cardinal, acquainting them with this readiness to comply with their wishes, but the Legate (fn. 1) had not yet received his instructions from Rome, and they had no commission to attempt the release of the King of France. They therefore await intelligence from Rome, and a new ambassador from their King [Dr. Edward Lee], who will soon arrive at Toledo. Should the Legate and the other ambassadors go to the Emperor, will do as commanded by the State.
	Toledo, 8th November 1525.
	[Italian.]
Nov. 14. Navagero Despatches, Cicogna copy.	1167. The Same to the Same.
	The English ambassadors have made no demand soever of him.
	Necessary to proceed cautiously in the matter, by reason of the great suspicion which the Imperialists entertain of the Signory, especially as the French say that Venice and the Pope are with them. the Legate has not yet received any order from Rome to obtain the release of the King of France, and will make the demand in general terms to avoid increasing suspicion.
	Hitherto the English ambassadors do not show much warmth about the matter, and say that nothing whatever has been told them by the French, neither have they made any communication to them [the French].
	Toledo, 14th November 1525.
	[Italian.]
Nov. 17. Navagero Despatches, Cicogna copy.	1168. Andrea Navagero to the Signory.
	Informed by the Legate [Salviati] that he had heard from the Emperor himself, that the English ambassadors demand he should pay them the arrears of pensions which were due from France during the years whilst England was waging war on France as his ally, and which the Emperor bound himself to pay.
	To this the Emperor replies that according to the agreement now stipulated with the King of England, France promises to pay him these arrears, and it is not reasonable that England should receive payment twice. In the agreement they have given another name to these pensions, and they are at liberty to call them what they please, but still he (the Emperor) is not bound to pay what has been already received.
	Toledo, 17th November 1525.
	[Italian.]
Nov. 17. Sanuto Diaries, v. xl. p. 329.	1169. Lorenzo Orio to the Doge and Signory.
	On receipt of the Signory's letters, dated 18th October, spoke to Cardinal Wolsey, acquainting him with the arrest of Morone by the Spaniards, and the peril of the duchy of Milan. His Lordship said, “The league must therefore be made with France, either with the Pope or without him. The Signory must ally herself closely with France. You should not lose time.”
	The Cardinal moreover wishes the Signory to send a secret ambassador to France, and to fortify the Venetian towns, without waiting for the Pope, who (Wolsey said) is not aware of the enmity borne him by the Emperor.
	The Cardinal then said that Sir Gregory Casal would already have reached Venice and Rome; that he would send letters to Casal in the King's name and his own for the Pope, urging his Holiness to conclude the league; and that he would tell the French ambassadors in London to write to Madame the Regent to conclude the league without delay.
	Yesterday the King's almoner [Dr. Lee] departed as ambassador to the Emperor in Spain, in lieu of the President of London [Tunstall, Bishop of London] who is returning.
	Pace, late ambassador to the Signory, has arrived in London. Will visit him.
	London, 17th November. Registered by Sanuto, 7th December.
	[Italian.]
Nov. 19. CommuniConsiglio X.	1170. Embassy in England.
	Motion made in the Council of Ten and Junta by the chiefs.
	Have heard from the nobleman Lorenzo Orio, LL.D. and knight, ambassador in England, by letters dated the 7th inst., concerning the loss incurred by him when receiving the money. Therefore to provide for his indemnity,—
	Put to the ballot, that the moneys for his expenses be given to his agents in broad gold florins, as was enacted with regard to the Signory's ambassadors at Rome.
	Ayes,	18	19
	Noes,	8	6	Nihil captum.
	Neutrals,	1,	2
	[Italian.]
Nov. 21. Lettere del Collegio (Secreta), File no. 9.	1171. The Doge and College to Lorenzo Ohio, Ambassador in England.
	The Marquis of Pescara has been making constant proposals, replies, and rejoinders to the Duke of Milan, but all of one tenor, persisting in his demands, especially with regard to surrender of the castles of Milan and Cremona, &c. The Duke has constantly refused, and reserves the right of exculpating himself to the Emperor from the false charges to which he has been subjected. On the 13th the Lansquenets, having occupied the suburbs of Milan, surrounded and blockaded the castle, placing sentries, raising bastions and such other bulwarks as seemed necessary to them. On the other hand, the garrison of the castle cannonades their quarters briskly every day, causing them some loss. According to report the castle is determined on defence, hoping for succour from the other Christian powers. The Imperialists are endeavouring to muster a number of sappers (guastadori), to make trenches round the castle, but can only find a few to undertake the service. They have imposed two subsidies at Cremona and other cities in the Milanese, to obtain as much money as possible, but almost everybody hesitates to pay, being aware of the importance of the measure. The Duke is understood to be convalescent. The Marquis of Pescara is not in a good state of health, being troubled with a grievous wearisome disease.
	To communicate this intelligence immediately to the King and Cardinal, and request they will render effective assistance.
	A French gentleman named Robodanges has been sent express by the Regent to the Bishop of Bayeux [Canossa] and the Magnifico Dom. Ambrosio [da Fiorenza], her ambassadors with the Signory, bringing letters and powers to conclude the union with Italy according to the articles in the enclosed copy. Send also the reply of the Senate, in order that, if spoken to, he may answer veraciously.
	Yesterday received letters from Rome, dated the 16th, informing them that the Lord Albert of Carpi had received the same powers from the Regent as those addressed to her ambassadors at Venice. He had communicated them to the Pope; and they were to confer together, modify certain articles, and send them back to the Regent for confirmation. To request the King and Cardinal not to fail furthering this negotiation for the liberty of Italy.
	[Italian.]
Nov. 21. Sanuto Diaries, v. xl. pp. 356, 358.	1172. Dom. Soardino to [the Marquis of Mantua].
	Should the Emperor choose, money will be found for the Marquis of Pescara. Notwithstanding the necessity for adjusting matters between the Emperor and England, they are very dissatisfied with each other. The Emperor is willing to refund the money received on account of the Princess of England's dower, so there is no dispute on that score, though the Emperor requires time, and the King insists on immediate payment. This however will be arranged, but England demands of the Emperor the pensions which were withheld from her by France during the period when, for the Emperor's sake, the King of England was the enemy of France. The Emperor replies that he bound himself to pay the money in case the French failed to do so; but now that England has made terms with France, and France has paid a considerable sum of money solely for arrears of pensions, he is released from his promise. This position England denies, saying that France paid the sum on some other account. A dispute therefore exists, which may perchance create some mischief, though he (Soardino) knows that the Emperor told a certain person that this would not cause any quarrel between them; but the Emperor has shown dissatisfaction, and the like feeling is evinced by the English ambassadors in their conversations.
	Toledo, 21st November. Registered by Sanuto, 14th, December.
	[Italian.]
Nov. 29. Sanuto Diaries, v. xl. p. 347.	1173. Theodoro Triulzi to —.
	The Duchess of Alençon is still in Spain negotiating the agreement, which will be effected. On the 28th, mass was chaunted pontifically at Lyons, in the presence of the great personages of France and the English ambassadors; and they swore to the league and peace between France and England.
	Lyons, 29th November. Registered by Sanuto, 12th December.
	[Italian.]