Spain: March 1545, 1-10 | British History Online

Calendar of State Papers, Spain, Volume 8, 1545-1546. Originally published by His Majesty's Stationery Office, London, 1904.

Citation:

'Spain: March 1545, 1-10', in Calendar of State Papers, Spain, Volume 8, 1545-1546, ed. Martin A S Hume( London, 1904), British History Online https://prod.british-history.ac.uk/cal-state-papers/spain/vol8/pp44-55 [accessed 28 November 2024].

March 1545, 1–10



8 March Vienna Imp. Arch	The Queen Regent to Chapuys and Van der Delft.
	This is to inform you that Secretary Paget arrived here on the 27th ultimo. After stating his mission, and complaining bitterly of the seizures of English persons and property here, he requested the Emperor to raise the embargoes; having regard, as he said, to the fact that the King had entirely released everything seized in England, although he maintained that the merchandise embargoed there was legally stopped, not as belonging to the Emperor's subjects, but as the property of Frenchmen.
	He also requested the Emperor to declare war against the French, in accordance with the treaty of alliance.
	The Emperor (fn. 1) caused the answer to his demands to be communicated to him (Paget) in the presence of the resident ambassador, Nicholas Wotton; and pointed out to them the urgent reasons which had dictated the seizures, the object not being to injure Englishmen, but to avoid greater troubles. The Emperor had not refused to raise the embargoes, if they (the English) would begin by doing the same; and of their having done so he had received no news. All that he had learnt was that 150 lasts of herrings had been released, and 50 lasts of pitch and tar; which was not by any means all that had been embargoed. On the contrary, there was a great quantity of property still detained at Boulogne and Calais; and fresh complaints were constantly reaching us of new seizures being made every day by the English of ships and goods belonging to the Emperor's subjects. Besides all this, some ships equipped in Zeeland to carry Spanish infantry to Spain had been stopped (fn. 2); and these his Majesty wished released without loss to him.
	With regard to the declaration against France, the causes which exempted his Majesty from the obligation of acceding to their request had already been fully explained to the Earl of Hertford and the Bishop of Winchester, and there was no need to repeat them. Even if the Emperor were bound to make this declaration under the treaty there were several grave reasons why it was inconvenient at the present season to enter anew into war with France; and the Emperor was under the impression that the King, their master, had been convinced and satisfied in this respect, as he had reason to be.
	Secretary Paget appeared downcast at so strong a reply being given to his demand; and cried out that his master had entered into the war at the instance, and for the advantage, of the Emperor; and that now he was deserted and left alone, without help or support. Since the treaty of peace with France had been signed no attempt, he said, had been made to bring about peace for him. Even when the Bishop of Arras and other ambassadors were present at Calais at the time that the negotiations were being carried on with Cardinal de Bellay, they had made no effort to smooth matters between France and England. (fn. 3) With regard to the seizures, he, Paget, maintained that the King had good reason to seize victuals that were being carried to his enemy; and although it could be proved that the owners were French, he (the King) had released everything, and consequently it was only right that the embargo should be raised on this side.
	On the point of the declaration (against France) he, Paget, and all his colleagues on the Council held it as notorious and unquestionable that the Emperor was bound to make the declaration. The reasons alleged by his Majesty which made it at present inconvenient to do so, had, so far as he was aware, never yet been set forth. The Emperor's commissioners replied that it was perfectly well-known that his Majesty was not bound to make the declaration; for the reasons already stated on other occasions; and if the matter were pressed and a definite answer demanded, these reasons would again be set forth so plainly that everyone would acknowledge that his Majesty was free from any obligation. With regard to the considerations which rendered it unadvisable for his Majesty to make the declaration, even if he were bound to do so by treaty, they were so evident, and had been alleged so often, that there was no need to insist upon them. Nevertheless, in order to satisfy the Secretary (Paget) two of these considerations might be mentioned to him. First; did he consider it reasonable, after his Majesty had made a treaty with France, that he should forthwith break it again; and whether, if he did so, the Emperor would not suffer in reputatation before the world ? Secondly; since news comes from all sides of an intended descent of the Turk next season, whether it is not more fitting for Christian princes to seek peace with each other than to re-open war; and whether the Germans would not have good cause for resentment if they were deprived of the aid against the Turk promised by the King of France. His Majesty had done no small favour to the King of England by stipulating for the employment of French forces against the Turk, and thus diverting them. Since, however, a definite answer to the request was demanded by England, his Majesty would consider it, and give such a justification of his action as would put put him right with the King.
	The Secretary (Paget) then declared that he only asked for a definite reply in the matter of the seizures. The reasons alleged for deferring the declaration against France were weighty; and he would refrain from discussing them. But he sincerely hoped that he would be able to carry back with him a favourable answer. Otherwise he would be the most unhappy man in the world: for he had always favoured the Emperor's party.
	The Emperor having received a report of the above conversation, decided to give the reply, of which a copy is enclosed herewith, referring only to the question of the seizures. This reply was repeated to the (English) ambassadors on the 4th instant and Paget was very much dissatisfied with it. After much discussion on both sides, Paget begged that a more favourable reply should be given. On consideration, his Majesty decided to adhere to this reply, and by his orders we repeated it to Paget in the presence of the two English ambassadors here (fn. 4). Paget again remonstrated, but finally seeing that he could get nothing further, he advanced as if of his own accord certain expedients in the interests of a settlement. If, he said, his Majesty would release everything seized the King would do the same: and with regard to the old disputed claims of those who alleged illegal seizures in England, such as the Burgos merchants and Jasper Doulchy and others, a day could be fixed for hearing the cases, commissioners could be appointed by both princes, and restitution should be effected according to their decision.
	With respect to the measures for the future, the King of England would undertake to allow Netherlander to frequent France, on condition that they did not carry victuals or munitions of war, pending such time as the question of the declaration of the Emperor against France remained undecided.
	These expedients having been considered by the Emperor, who did not desire to reject them entirely, the ambassadors were informed that his Majesty would be willing to come to an understanding on his basis, if he had the prior assurance from the King, or from Paget in his name, that they would be confirmed. Paget was at first quite shocked at this; saying that he had not brought forward these expedients officially, but simply as suggestions of his own, and he could not enter into negotiations upon them. His mission was to beg for a reply with regard to the release of the seizures. After much discussion, however, he finally consented to listen to what was to be said about his suggestions, but without binding himself in any way. The Emperor's commissioners had put in writing the conditions which seemed necessary for the acceptance of Paget's suggestions, and exhibited a copy to Paget (copy of which writing is also adjoined) at whose request a copy was handed to him on the understanding that the writing was not authorised by the Emperor or binding, but was only a suggestion made by the Commissioners.
	During these discussions a secretary named David Paniter arrived here from Scotland bringing letters of credence to us, in virtue whereof he set forth the ancient friendship that had existed unbroken between Scotland and the Netherlands for 150 years. Scotland, he said, had given no reason now for breaking this amity, but the efforts of their old enemy had caused his Majesty last year to declare against the Scots, who wished to remain friendly with him. The envoy begged us to obtain for him audience of the Emperor, and to use our influence in favour of the continuance of friendly and neighbourly relations.
	The (English) ambassadors were at once informed of this. The Emperor, they were told, had no quarrel with the Scots; and was at war with them solely at the instance of the King of England. He wished therefore the ambassadors to consider what answer could be given to the Scottish envoy, since his Majesty did not intend to deal with Scotland, except jointly with the King of England.
	The ambassadors tried several times to get out of it, on the ground that they had no instructions; but at last said that, in their opinion, the envoy might be told that the Scots would do well to come to terms with the King of England. When they (the Scots) had done this, they would be reconciled with the Emperor. The commissioners undertook to convey this advice to his Majesty.
	As Secretary Paget had remarked that no favour had been shown to his master since the signature of the treaty of peace with France, with the object of bringing about peace for England as well, the imperial commissioners said, as if of their own accord and in the interest of friendship, that his Majesty desired nothing better than that the King of England should also be at peace. The only reason why he had not hitherto made any move in that direction, was that he did not wish to meddle beyond what was agreeable to the King. But as soon as his Majesty thought that his intervention would be acceptable, he would willingly offer it. They (i.e. the ambassadors and Paget) could consider whether the coming of this Scottish envoy might not offer an opportunity for setting some negotiations afoot, either for peace or a truce, without giving any indication that they originated with the King of England. It so, the imperial commissioners offered their good offices in the matter. The English ambassadors thanked them and promised to consider it; subsequently asking for a further delay, until they could communicate to the King the writing (i.e. about the seizures) already referred to. They begged that you (i.e. Chapuys and Van der Delft) should not be informed of their negotiations until they received a reply from England. They sent off their special courier to-day; but as it is possible that they may have sent him for other purposes than those avowed, we have thought well to advise you precisely, so that you may watch closely what goes on there, and see whether anything further is attempted, either in the way of holding the seizures more strictly, or effecting new ones; informing us with all diligence, but without appearing to know anything about Paget's negotiations here, unless you consider necessary.
	Brussels, 8 March, 1545.
	21. A report to the Emperor of what passed with Secretary Paget on the 2nd March, 1545.
	First he declared that he had been sent about the release of the property seized here, since the King had already released all ships and merchandise that had been arrested in England, notwithstanding that the arrests had been made for good reasons, the property really belonging to Frenchmen, and not to his Majesty's subjects, as he could prove by means of some of the richest merchants in Antwerp. The second object of his mission was to obtain the declaration against France, in accordance with the treaty, the delay claimed by his Majesty having long ago expired. (fn. 5)
	He (Paget) was informed that the Emperor had already set forth to the Earl of Hertford and the Bishop of Winchester the reasons why his Majesty was not obliged to make the declaration; and even if it were otherwise, public affairs rendered it unadvisable to make such declaration, and this should be accepted as a sufficient excuse. With regard to the seizures, the Emperor had not been able to avoid complying with the clamour of his subjects. The allegation that the property belonged to Frenchmen was highly improbable, as it had been shipped here or owned by his Majesty's subjects. If fraud was discovered, there was no desire to shelter French property, but this must not be taken as an excuse for detaining all goods from here. Nothing is more desirable than that release should be effected on both sides, and that steps should be taken to avoid such troublesome occurrences in future; but as quite recently a fresh seizure had been made (in England) of nine Biscay vessels there was no appearance of a cessation of the seizures on the part of the English. On the point of the declaration against France, the Secretary (Paget) replied that, according to the treaty, it was notorious that the Emperor was bound to make it; and as for the suggestion that, even if that were so there were certain considerations which should cause the King to refrain from pressing the point, he (Paget) had never been informed what those considerations were.
	With respect to the seizures, the treaty provided that in the case of a seizure being effected by one party, the other should not adopt reprisals, but that the matter should be settled by an arbitration court held for the purpose. Besides this, it would be shown that the goods seized really belonged to Frenchmen, and that the ships were consequently good captures by law, as laid down by the Vice Admiral of Flanders in a similar case, where victuals were being conveyed to the French, then their enemies, and the ships were seized and held to be legal captures. Nevertheless, the King, in order to preserve friendship, had released everything, and promised in future to do all that was necessary; for which reason he requested a similar release of the seizures on this side. In future when anything of the same sort occurred it should be settled not against the treaty by reprisals, but by special joint arbitration, as stipulated. As to the fresh arrests alleged, he was unable to speak; but it might be that the King had detained the ships not as prizes, but for the purpose of himself making use of them in the war.
	Paget then confidentially, and as a constant partisan of the Emperor, went on to say that all English subjects lamented that so much favour was shown to the French here, whilst it seemed that Englishmen were ill treated and abused. It appeared to him that since the peace no effort whatever had been exerted here to help them (the English) to obtain a favourable peace also; and he begged the imperial commissioners to bear this in mind, and do their best in the interest of the maintenance of friendship.
	The Commissioners replied in the first place, that since the peace with France, there had been no cessation of effort to favour the English in every possible way. With this object it had been forbidden to convey food to the French camp from the Emperor's dominions, whilst food had been supplied to the English troops. The French had always been informed that it was intended to observe the treaty with England; and nothing had been permitted in infraction of that treaty. His Majesty desired nothing better than that they (the English) should be as completely at peace with France as he now was, but he had not meddled because he did not wish to go further than was agreeable to the King of England. So far as concerned the maintenance of friendship, the Commissioners promised their best offices, as they knew the Emperor wished the same.
	Touching the declaration demanded against France, it was held to be unquestionable that his Majesty was not bound thereto, for the reasons stated to the Earl of Hertford and the Bishop of Winchester, which there was no need to repeat. The considerations which should make the King refrain from pressing the point had also been set forth, and had doubtless been conveyed to the King by the Ambassadors of the Emperor. Nevertheless, as Paget stated that he had not heard them, and asked for a definite reply, some of these considerations would be repeated to him.
	First: the demand was made about two months after the peace with France was signed; and it was neither reasonable nor honest to break a treaty so suddenly. To do so would be unworthy of the Emperor.
	Secondly: the Emperor had been moved to make this peace in the hope of bringing about a pacification of all Christendom, in order to resist the invasion of the Turk; as since last year it was known that preparations were being made for a Turkish descent upon Germany; and adequate resistance would have been impossible if the Emperor had remained at war with France; in addition to which the promised assistance of the King of France against the Turk would have been lost. For this reason the peace was so popular in Germany. His Majesty, moreover, had by this stipulation not only provided for the general interests of Christendom, but had also greatly benefited the King of England by diverting the French forces.
	In the matter of the seizures, we had learnt that the vessels (in England) had been released, and the same had been done on this side. The merchandise, however, had been only partially released; and above all new seizures had been effected, which could not he excused on the ground that the King wished to employ the ships, because these vessels were loaded here for the voyage to Biscay, and were merely passing the English coast. It would have been a different thing if the ships had either loaded or discharged in England. To avoid such annoyances for the future some arrangements must be made, as well as redressing the present case.
	The Secretary (Paget) finally declared that he had not demanded a definite reply in the matter of the declaration against France; but only with regard to the raising of the arrests. The considerations which had been alleged for not making the declaration were weighty, and he would not discuss them. He did not quite understand what was meant by making arrangements for the future; because if the declaration was made against France there was no need for providing for the future, since relations (i.e. between France and the Emperor's dominions) would cease. Perchance the meaning was that some arrangement other than the special arbitration courts might be made (i.e. to avoid future trouble in the matter of seizures) for the period during which the Emperor was considering about the declaration. The reply given to this was, that there was no intention to refer to the period during which the Emperor considered about the declaration; but it was desired to know what were the views of the King of England on the point of whether the subjects of the Emperor should frequent France or not; as your Majesty's decision would be guided by his answer. With regard also to the special arbitration courts, it was desirable to know the details of the procedure proposed. The Secretary (Paget) replied that he had no instructions as to future regulations; and it would be advisable to communicate with the King. The Commissioners undertook to report all this to the Emperor.
8 March. Vienna Imp. Arch.	22. Note of the Emperor's reply to Paget's representations respecting the seizures of merchandise.
	The Emperor having considered the report of the communications with Sir William Paget, councillor and first secretary to the King of England, his good brother and perpetual ally; and having maturely weighed all the arguments alleged on both sides in the matter of raising the embargo placed upon English property here. has ordered the following reply to be given to the secretary. The Emperor's object in ordering the seizures was not in the slightest degree to injure or ill treat English subjects, whose presence in his dominions he welcomes, and whom he desires to treat with all favour, as they have been treated for many years past; but solely to satisfy the clamour of his subjects, who complained unceasingly of the ill-treatment, pillage and oppression, suffered by them at the hands of the English since the conclusion of the recent treaty with France; and declared that they would prefer to be considered openly as enemies, in which case they could take steps for their defence, and would be on their guard, rather than be thus despoiled and outraged, without being able to protect themselves, out of respect for his Majesty, who had ordered them strictly to observe friendship and good neighbourship towards the subjects of the King. They alleged that, not only were they seized in England itself, but the poor fishermen out at sea were despoiled of everything they had by the English ships of war.
	The merchant ships also sailing to France or Spain have been obliged to enter English ports, and the men on board have there been pillaged, not only of all their cargoes but also of their ships' furniture and stores, and even of their own clothes and money. Out of pure poverty and need, therefore, they have been obliged to abandon everything and take to flight.
	Our said subjects alleged that the King of England's officers were not content with seizing a ship here and there, but seized every ship they met at sea, and our subjects begged for permission to adopt reprisals. In view of difficulties which this would have brought about, his Majesty, to satisfy his subjects, was constrained to decree the seizure of the persons and property of English merchants here. But this was done with such moderation and civility that no one had cause to complain; since no merchandise was moved, but simply placed under embargo where it was, and no loss was suffered except for the time being. On the other hand, the Emperor's subjects not only suffered in this way, but incurred enormous losses by being forced to discharge in England, and sell at a vile price, the cargoes which they had consigned to France and Spain; added to which their property was seized, and to a large extent sold, in their absence, and against their will.
	As soon as the seizures were decreed here his Majesty informed the English merchants that the only reason for the measure was that already referred to: and that as soon as the property of his subjects was released in England, a similar release would be effected here. A message to the same effect was sent by him to the King by M. Tourquoyn.
	After this an undertaking was made to release the property on both sides, but the conditions were such that the Emperor's subjects were in no sense satisfied; and were still unable to obtain restitution of their property.
	Notwithstanding this, as soon as his Majesty was informed that the Flemish ships had been released, he ordered a similar release of all English ships and sailors here. His Majesty, however, is still without intelligence that all his subjects' property has been fully restored; although his ambassadors have written that a certain quantity of herrings have been released and sold in England, and also some pitch. No mention, however, is made of the herrings and other merchandise which had already been sold before the order of release was given; nor of the property seized off Calais and Boulogne, for which the Emperor's subjects allege that they can obtain no redress whatever.
	In addition to this, his Majesty learns that the vessels which he fitted out here for the purpose of conveying a portion of his Spanish infantry to Spain, on board of which ships several gentlemen of his household, Spanish merchants and others, had loaded a great quantity of their property, for the purpose of carrying it with greater safety, have been detained in England, on the pretext that the King wished to employ these ships for the war. By this means the Spanish infantry will be obliged to remain in England; and his Majesty will be deprived of their services for the protection of his coasts against the infidel, for which purpose he was despatching them to Spain. In this case, therefore, not only are the merchants prejudiced by the detention of their goods in transit; but his Majesty himself is seriously injured by the loss of the pay of these soldiers, for which he must be indemnified for the time that their presence in Spain is hindered.
	There is moreover no excuse whatever for detaining these ships in the King's service; since they were neither equipped nor destined for an English port; and though certain artillery and munitions of war were loaded on board, they were intended for delivery in Spain, and the King of England has no right to use them.
	For these reasons his Majesty would have ample grounds to continue the embargo here: but in order to please the King of England, he is willing, fully and completely, to release all the property detained here, against good cautionary security that a similar release will be effected of all ships and property belonging to his subjects detained in the possessions of the King of England, on both sides of the Channel, and that the owners of the merchandise already sold shall be indemnified. In addition to this, the King of England must undertake to restore the ships which carried the infantry, in the same state and condition in which they were when they entered an English port; and place them on the high sea, in order that they may proceed on their voyage to Spain, as his Majesty ordered them to do; the King of England not retaining either men, goods, artillery or munitions. The said cautionary security shall be held until the Burgos merchants have been satisfied in their claims, and also until Jasper Doulchy's claim is settled for herrings, which he alleges were captured last year, in spite of the safe-conduct obtained by him; or otherwise until such time as representatives of the two sovereigns shall have decided upon the claims of the above-mentioned merchants and of Jasper Doulchy.
	In future the King must undertake not to hinder the voyages of his Majesty's subjects to France, either directly or indirectly, so long as his Majesty may desire that his subjects should enjoy the effects of the peace with the King of France.
	A conference is to be appointed for the consideration of complaints of subjects of both princes, in accordance with the treaty; and for the devising of such measures for the future as may be desirable in the interests of inter-communication between the peoples.
	When the King of England takes steps which shall ensure to the subjects of the Emperor the enjoyment of peaceful trade in England and elsewhere, the Emperor will undertake to preserve the subjects of England here in tranquillity and security.
	The draft agreement referred to in the Queen Dowager's letter of 8th March.
	In order that the embargoes, both in England and in the dominions of the Emperor, placed upon ships, merchandise and subjects, should be raised; and the loss and injury arising therefrom avoided; and also in order that subjects on both sides may in future enjoy favourable treatment as in old times, the representatives (Commis) of the Emperor and the Ambassadors of the King of England, France and Ireland, have agreed upon the following points:—
	1. The two monarchs will raise all embargoes which have been placed upon persons or goods by them or their officers since the commencement of the last war. This shall be done on both sides fully and completely, in good faith and without fraud; and in the case of merchandise already sold, the owners thereof shall be recompensed for the value of the same at a reasonable price: it being, however, understood that in cases where the King or his officers allege that the property belongs to French subjects, and is consequently a legal capture, the two contracting princes will appoint Commissioners to enquire and decide upon the matter. For this purpose such Commissioners shall be furnished with ample powers, and also to enquire into and decide all other complaints of the subjects of both monarchs on either side, and to order what may be just in relation thereto. Both monarchs will undertake, as their representatives now undertake in their name, to comply with the decisions which the afore-mentioned Commissioners may agree upon. As in some cases it may be necessary to take evidence, the Commissioners may delegate their powers for this purpose, as they may consider advisable.
	The King of England shall release and place in entire freedom the ships equipped in Zeeland for the purpose of conveying certain Spanish soldiers whom his Imperial Majesty is sending to Spain, and also all property and merchandise in the said ships. The King of England shall not retain in his service any of the said soldiers, either with their consent or otherwise; since those who abandon his Imperial Majesty's service are considered as rebels, and as such cannot be harboured or retained in the realm of England. In case the ships shall have sailed without the soldiers the King will provide other vessels for the conveyance of the men to Spain. (fn. 6)
	In order to obviate for the future similar unpleasant occurrences it is mutually agreed that the subjects on either side shall be at liberty to navigate freely wheresoever they will, without let or hindrance from the other. Always provided that in the case of his Majesty's subjects sailing for France (which it shall be licit for them to do, without hindrance, pending further orders) they shall not carry any food, victuals, or munitions of war to be landed in France; but only such quantities of the same as may be really needful for the use of the ships themselves.
10 March. Vienna Imp. Arch.	23. Eustace Chapuys to Secretary Joos Bave.
	As we have only just learnt of the pending departure of this courier, we cannot write to their Majesties (the Emperor and the Queen Regent of the Netherlands), and in default thereof I write a few lines to you to say that these people (the English) appear somewhat cooler than before in the matter of the restitution of the property detained here. They are already beginning to lament that the King, as they say, should have spent from his own pocket nearly 4,000 ducats in the matter, and the Councillors have during the last few days refused on three occasions to receive the Ambassador's (Van der Delft's) people and mine, who had gone to lodge the complaints, which had been sent to us by the Queen (Dowager of Hungary). Our people also mentioned to them the case of the farmer (censier) detained at Calais, and the Ostend complaints. The Council had already written to the Deputy of Calais about it, but no satisfaction has been obtained, and the Council has made no further move in the matter. From this it is easy to see what sort of redress will be obtained, in cases which may still remain pending after the embargo is raised on our side. The excuse the Council gives for declining to entertain fresh complaints is that the whole affair must be settled by the procedure specified by the treaty. If we liked to pay them in their own coin (rendre de tel pain souppe) we might tell them, that as they consider the seizures on our side to be an infraction of the treaty, the same procedure might be adopted in both cases.
	With regard to the going of the Scottish ambassador to Flanders, respecting which the Queen (Dowager of Hungary) wrote to us, there has been no need for us to give the King any explanations about it, as he was satisfied with what his Ambassador wrote to him on the subject.
	I learn that these people (the English) have sent to Brussels a Frenchman who is married and settled here, for the purpose of arranging something with Morette, (fn. 7) with whom he is friendly; and I am told that English Ambassadors resident there (in Brussels) are constantly visiting the French Ambassador. The King of England's people, who had gone on a foray over the Scottish border, have received a terrible thrashing. They have lost 2,000 horsemen, and one of the best and bravest of their captains, the son of the Warden of the Marches whose name I forget. They say that the Earl of Douglas was at the head of the Scots, at least the King believes so, though he (the King) in order to minimise the affair will not admit that more than 1,500 of his men fell. The fact is, however, that not one escaped death; and for the further advantage of the Scots the Englishmen dismounted to fight, so that all the English horses fell intact into the hands of the enemy. It is true that fortune somewhat softened this blow by the capture by the English, a week ago, of two Scottish ships on their voyage from France, with munitions and other valuable property. There are many Italian and Spanish captains here, and among others Gamboa (fn. 8) who has been made Colonel (Maestre de Campo) with 150 ducats a month pay. London, 10th March, 1545.